SpawnMasons - vc-text

Brother Entropy

black body radiation

this always made me laugh

02:36

bc of that weird trend in academia to say "black and brown bodies"

there are black and brown bodies at the bottom of my lake

1

joey you are blue balling me sob_cat

02:37

i wouldnt mind talking about it pleading_cat

i only really care superficially transaaa

02:39

i am smart and work hard and i am confident ill get where i try for regardless of quirks in the system

yeah

02:39

but that isn't true for everyone lol

yeah

some people wont make it because their spot was given to someone less qualified and less needing just to fill imaginary good boy points

who gives a shit

02:41

maybe do better

if you were the person you probably would

use your superior white genes to do better

i said more qualified so they are doing better

Sister Пепси Мальчик (male)

some people wont make it because their spot was given to someone less qualified and less needing just to fill imaginary good boy points

is this adjustment in the direction of increased or decreased justice? (edited)

do even better

justice is subjective

Sister Пепси Мальчик (male)

justice is subjective

yet at the same time you are lamenting how unfair it is that spots are given to people weighing factors that include their race?

02:43

how is that a problem if justice is subjective

black body radiation = cia agents that glow in the dark

i am not speaking from a justice angle i am speaking from an i am selfish angle as well as a utilitarian angle which is the best

utilitarianism is really stupid philosophy

02:44

if a gang rape occurs and the rapists get more enjoyment from it than the victim suffers it is good

02:44

this is what utilitarians believe

maybe utilitarian is the wrong word

02:45

meritocractic

Altar Goy Henry

this is what utilitarians believe

i dont think that's the right way to argue against utilitarianism

02:46

e.g. if a kidnapping occurs and society gets more benefit than the victim suffers it is good - isn't this implicitly how the justice system and imprisonment works?

no the gang rape critique is pretty famous

well apply it to imprisonment as punishment for a crime

02:46

or any punishment, doesn't have to be imprisonment specifically (edited)

02:48

like if you accept that there are some cases where someone's just Posting So Much Cringe that we really need to keep them out of society, isn't that comparable to the gang rape critique

i don;t know what you're talkinga bot

Altar Goy Henry

i don;t know what you're talkinga bot

like, in your moral view, is it sometimes necessary to imprison or restrain some Really Bad Guys because the harm they'd do to society is so large that it outweighs the cringiness of imprisoning someone

yep

how does this not make you a utilitarian, guilty of the gang rape critique

the difference here is that you can't just determine what is good or bad based on gained or lost utils

02:49

which is what is being critiqued in gang rape situation

02:50

that if you just look at net utils gang rape becomes ok

time to cause another spin argument, where do you guys derive your morality from !?!??!?! (yes I am trolling to cause an argument)

i dont think so

Altar Goy Henry

the difference here is that you can't just determine what is good or bad based on gained or lost utils

im not sure i get the difference

02:50

hm

Zaanga

time to cause another spin argument, where do you guys derive your morality from !?!??!?! (yes I am trolling to cause an argument)

my upbringing

do the gang rapists get a power boost from doing rape that makes them more useful

lmfao

Brother leijurv

hm

are you saying that it's not tradeoffs that are the problem, it's the analysis of when the tradeoff is worth it, that's flawed?

Zaanga

time to cause another spin argument, where do you guys derive your morality from !?!??!?! (yes I am trolling to cause an argument)

morality comes originally from our inherent social cohesion emotions like sympathy/empathy/guilt/embarassment, diffracted and lensed through a very complicated social and eventually legal system built on top of it

02:51

Brother leijurv

im not sure i get the difference

well like, youre talking about a crime being bad (there has already been a moral judgement) so we imprison somebody to keep them from doing it more whereas the gang rape thing is about deriving morality from utils

there is no utility gained from doing a rape but you are negatively impacting a possible worker

Altar Goy Henry

well like, youre talking about a crime being bad (there has already been a moral judgement) so we imprison somebody to keep them from doing it more whereas the gang rape thing is about deriving morality from utils

hm wait, so are you drawing the line between "preventing a bad thing" and "causing a good thing"?

Brother leijurv

morality comes originally from our inherent social cohesion emotions like sympathy/empathy/guilt/embarassment, diffracted and lensed through a very complicated social and eventually legal system built on top of it

do you believe morality is objective ? Or is all of this differing from culture to culture ie subjective and relative based on the culture/area

02:53

fr curious on ur opinion on this

Brother leijurv

hm wait, so are you drawing the line between "preventing a bad thing" and "causing a good thing"?

I sense the great leijurv text wall is spawning in....

Zaanga

do you believe morality is objective ? Or is all of this differing from culture to culture ie subjective and relative based on the culture/area

i think that if you take as a given a certain set of fundamental priors (example: we are talking about humans as they exist today, not some distant evolutionary past, not some other animal entirely), then you can rightly say that the social cohesion emotions (listed above ^) cause the sense of right and wrong that we experience as morality

02:54

no im just thinking

02:54

btw we have argued about this in the past

Altar Goy Henry

henry crying that i'm blurring the line between him and gross yucky utilitarians? pleading_cat

Brother leijurv

i think that if you take as a given a certain set of fundamental priors (example: we are talking about humans as they exist today, not some distant evolutionary past, not some other animal entirely), then you can rightly say that the social cohesion emotions (listed above ^) cause the sense of right and wrong that we experience as morality

in other words, our sense of right and wrong is greatly impacted by something fundamental to us, not something objective to the universe or anything, but fundamental to our DNA

02:55

literal dna, im not being metaphorical when i say "dna"

i;m crying because i;m not getting it......im too stupid..........

Altar Goy Henry

i;m crying because i;m not getting it......im too stupid..........

imprisoning a criminal is okay because while it hurts them, it helps society. this is okay because ???

well ok i think there are other defenses of imprisonment that aren't derived from utilitarianism

yeah sure

02:56

btw dinner closes at 7, so ill go phone-mode for a bit sowwy

based

are you arguing on the internet on a laptop at dinner

No

Brother leijurv

in other words, our sense of right and wrong is greatly impacted by something fundamental to us, not something objective to the universe or anything, but fundamental to our DNA

so if im understanding you, its objective correct or wrong so long as its literally encoded in our DNA ?

I am walking down to the cafeteria with my phone

Zaanga

so if im understanding you, its objective correct or wrong so long as its literally encoded in our DNA ?

No, I am making a descriptive claim, not a normative one

penis balls

Brother leijurv

No, I am making a descriptive claim, not a normative one

I claim that our shared understanding of right and wrong factually comes from, in large part, DNA that defines parts of the brain. I'm not claiming that this reality is "objectively good" or anything, it's just my understanding of how sympathy physically chemically works in the brain

so you could concede that like for example Murder=bad isnt like some universal constant or anything but rather developed thru our shared understanding/DNA ?

This isn't a big claim lol, it's obvious that our understanding of right and wrong generally lines up far more often than it disagrees, this isn't magic, it comes from the fact that out DNA gives us empathy for other people like it or not

who cares

02:59

just be kind to others

02:59

that's all there is to it

Whatever you’re arguing about, your mom.

Zaanga

so you could concede that like for example Murder=bad isnt like some universal constant or anything but rather developed thru our shared understanding/DNA ?

"Murder = bad" can't be derived from the fundamental laws of the universe, but it can be derived by the reality of our species as it biologically exists (NOT as it sociologically exists)

Altar Goy Henry

who cares

well it does matter when you are debating about whether some action is moral or not. I agree that most humans share a very similar morality but obv their is variations and we debate tho issues.

when would i need to do that

abortion argument

um

03:02

no thanks

Zaanga

well it does matter when you are debating about whether some action is moral or not. I agree that most humans share a very similar morality but obv their is variations and we debate tho issues.

Yeah but that doesn't change the fact that nihilism of shared morality is retarded? Like that perspective leads you to retarded conclusions like "if someone likes murder and doesn't think it's wrong at all, who am I to attempt to stop them from continuing?"

Brother leijurv

Yeah but that doesn't change the fact that nihilism of shared morality is retarded? Like that perspective leads you to retarded conclusions like "if someone likes murder and doesn't think it's wrong at all, who am I to attempt to stop them from continuing?"

im not quite sure what you mean by this, like are you saying nihilism is default or something ?

03:03

fr just did not understand lol

"nihilism of shared morality" is a phrase I just came up with that describes the perspective of "morality is so subjective and individual that you simply can't say if anyone else's actions are moral, because that depends on their morality alone"

oh ok

03:05

I mean yes if we actually lived like this as a society, regardless if it was true or not society would collapse

Plz recall that u literally argued this when I was accusing u of being a transphobe

I dont have time to scroll up that far xd

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/861294233897402418/872204864300650546

Brother leijurv

"nihilism of shared morality" is a phrase I just came up with that describes the perspective of "morality is so subjective and individual that you simply can't say if anyone else's actions are moral, because that depends on their morality alone"

there is def people that think this btw. But obv like no one lives this out in real life, cuz from a practicality standpoint its dumb

Zaanga

so since you agree that our sense of morality comes from evolution and society, then what objective basis do you have to say it is morally wrong to refuse to date trans people ? Is it because of evolution ? Because that just by chance, and so not objectively true, is it by society ?(aka everyone else agrees with me bro) That also is not objective. my point is unless you can show me where there is objective morality then otherwise your only argument for refusing to date trans people is bad is "cuz my brain chemistry which came about by chance" and "everyone else agrees with me bro, this is what I have been taught by my peers so it must be true" (edited)

.

Brother leijurv

my man hates trans people SO MUCH that he deconstructed the entire concept of moral right and wrong, pulled out its foundations, JUST for that

.

Brother leijurv

hey idiot, by your argument, there IS NO right or wrong, which is clearly not a valid frame of reference through which to judge actions

.

my argument was coming from a worldview that morality is "Nihilism of shared morality" I dont actually believe that

03:07

but I thought you did at the time

Zaanga

my argument was coming from a worldview that morality is "Nihilism of shared morality" I dont actually believe that

Worldview that morality is what?

so thats why I brought it up as a "Who are you to tell me XYZ is good or bad"

Zaanga

so thats why I brought it up as a "Who are you to tell me XYZ is good or bad"

Right

03:08

So you were only pretending...?

yes lol, as I thought that you believed that morality was only subjective, that its impossible to say XYZ is right or wrong

That is nonsense

03:09

There's no way you thought I thought that

03:09

My whole argument there was that it comes from dna

ig u know by brain better that me lol

Wooooooooow got me there

03:09

Guess I can't point out contradictions now

03:09

Between what you saying now vs then

Zaanga

I am struggling to comprehend your logic Leijruv, My claim is that there is not objective morality because it came about via evolutionary chance/society and that it could have gone any number of ways, And your counter argument to this is "we have the same dna"

Example

03:10

U clearly said that you claim no objective morality as counter argument to me

03:10

That's nonsense if you thought I also believed no objective morality

Zaanga

If I may try to read your mind for a second, stop coping and just admit objective morality isnt real.

Lol

Zaanga

yes lol, as I thought that you believed that morality was only subjective, that its impossible to say XYZ is right or wrong

this was my thought process, and yes how I viewed your worldview(Ie I thought that you believed morality is essentially not real) was wrong

03:12

(I was wrong)

That makes no sense when put against the literal things you said at the time

Zaanga

If I may try to read your mind for a second, stop coping and just admit objective morality isnt real.

Example

03:12

Does this sound like something you'd say if you believed in objective morality?