Spawnmasons - applicant-committee

Spawnmasons

discussion / applicant-committee

Discussion over our thoughts on initiates and returning masons.

because we love the popstonia masons

yeshello

1

redpill

1

Yes

You know it’s good when Terbins in on it

mcheart

1

is popstonia a real thing or a meme group?

popstonia is life

popstonia is an individual with a (well deserved) cult following

Rebane's alter ego https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8XCucz6crXn5rdm2teSOuw

ah

popstonia is a completely seperate entity from rebane

is this a robbyrue tulpa scenario

catflushed

1

Popstonia is a well established member of the 2b2t community

We should initiate them separately.

thistbh

4

^and vote on them separately lol

18:33

real troll: approve one but not the other

real troll: Approve postonia but not rebane (edited)

i wuv rebane don't do that to him

18:38

popstonia can take it

18:38

but popstonia is so cool

Shifting backwards new mason secret dance?

Image attachment

how.

leak

that's like anti-afk

No leak

>take skin >mirror it front>back Breithan isn't leaning backward, he is leaning forward with his face on the back of his head

brony stop leaking top secret mason dance

l3@k

Wow brony ruining the magic

>leaking >everyone in the channel is already a mason

03:14

ok Chodearac :3 (edited)

03:14

also breithan you cant fool me since I see the truth with my third eye

We planning on voting for Rebane this week? Need to know for the lodge.

are you building it?

03:46

also he was only given initiate like a week ago or something

But he's Rebane so... also, yes.

did you know him before he was a mason?

Yeah boi. We've had interactions in the map discord and on Reddit. Not a lot, but I respect the guy a ton. (edited)

but there is only room for one brony in this discord

wait is he a fucking brony

What do you mean "only room for one"? I thought you'd be thrilled to expand the brony population within the masons.

yes hes brony and I do want him in

ask @Brother Entropy

I vote give it another week

I was a brony before it was called brony

04:47

and then I stopped

04:47

midway through season 2

04:47

because I GREW UP

legit you were a brony?

04:55

todawac owo

yeah that was my 2011 existance

05:13

until I realised it was the new furry

05:13

then I noped the fuck out

ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WERE A FURRY TOO??? ()//()

05:18

also I am just jesting. I dont consider myself a furry

Bronys technically furries

this guy tho

Image attachment

i have a fursona

05:30

i didnt make it, and when it was made i wasnt aware it was a fursona, but my ex did make me one.

05:30

I ahve a drawing of it somewhere...

i just realized

05:30

you have an armband legband and a badge

Yeah he does

that is true loyalty to the masons

05:31

hari for worshipful

2nd

bro im dedicated, what can i say

05:32

i think someonw else also has all three

I need an armhand btw

05:32

band

was it cubes? :(

I keep forgetting

05:32

Armband me nigga

Which account? NickHasCancer?

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353428205723713536/673350479274704897

Image attachment

05:33

:(

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:)

05:36

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@Брат Bird https://minecraft.novaskin.me/skin/3701263192/BotherBird

birdup

my hero (edited)

stop

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By technicality

06:14

They are animals and have fur

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so is entropy gonna spoend an hour cleaning this channel lol

this is relevant discussion

this is relevant discussion

HermeticLock pinned a message to this channel. 06/04/2020 16:32

Thankyou, Herm, very cool.

17:45

I vote yes on webane

Image attachment

that is great

that just convinced me

18:17

yes on rebane

Parthicus is interested in playing again, not sure about being a mason but he hit me up on the server for a bit.

he was in vc at the meeting and after as well

When is rebane being initiated?

Entropy wanted to wait a bit

00:22

but Soon™️

i wuv rebane

jingle bells rebane smells, breithan laid an egg hermeticlock lost his sock and jared got away hey

1

CrabRave

1

00:28

wait - wrong season

hmm

01:06

added to my terbinisms folder

01:06

i wanted to know since i would change my lodge in 2 weeks if that was the initiation date

HermeticLock pinned a message to this channel. 11/04/2020 02:42

Is there a reason why we can’t have jumpy back? I feel like he’s done a lot for us. @Брат Bird @brother noname Are grievances solved?

no jumpy never said sorry and emperor doesnt give a shit

i just dont agree with you and I'm not going to twist jumpy's arm to get him to do what you want

and thats fine i get where youre coming from

@HermeticLock send an invite link

04:43

to me

We need to fix the Pint grey name problem.

05:23

Just sayin

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05:44

today has been a good day

05:44

i hope he resends it

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05:55

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05:56

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you're just toying with him dude

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05:57

detail orientation

again i don't really know what you are trying to do

get an essay

06:08

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Lol Hari you’re such a shit stirrer I love it

07:01

Also “he joined on a different account in 2016 then left until 2019” where have I heard that before...

:)

@Brother Hari

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08:10

Image attachment

08:10

Image attachment

08:11

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bruh

wtf

08:12

how did he find my ign

08:12

i never messaged him

08:12

hes a creep

because hari is the same as hari hari

but still

now he gave me coords to "offtopia bedroc sign"

how did he know the second hari

i said it first

OH

08:14

okay

08:14

you bitch

08:14

breithan blew up the sign board

false there is photgraphic evidence of the crystal and hari hari and also a witness warlord watched you do it

ur crazy

Grievances solved with Emperium Jumpy is still an immature cunt

08:40

I vouch for Sahara

Jumpy is still an immature cunt, but so are a bunch of masons

09:16

So he should be in here.

there were some pretty loudly outspoken people against

they can just mute and block him then if they cant stand him

lets take it up at the meeting

10:44

more love

How many “No” can an incisive get to not be accepted

80%

rn its 13/15. type that into a calculator, the resulting number must begin with 0.8, 0.9, or 1.0. if it begins with 0.7 then

https://rebane2001.com/

Rebane's website

23:12

Guys look at his website

23:12

this is exactly the type of person we want in here

23:12

Im a little baffled by the no's

then you werent paying attention during the meeting (edited)

https://rebane2001.com/mapartcraft/

MapartCraft

where is the vote i dont see anything in lodge votes

@Brother Dielo so you are voting so we vote again next week and then you vote yes?

yes

1

#applicant-council

oh i dont have access to that

but then how do you know we even vote again?

Amazing.

because people are talking about it here

What is the point of voting no so you can vote yes a week later? Isn't that just disrespectful to the candidate?

thistbh

1

23:15

If the vote doesn't pass why would we vote again?

thistbh

1

whats disrespectful is not taking in account the opinions of all brothers and OUR OWN rules

The vote should be about the candidate, not your political opinion.

thistbh

2

^

lately there has been too many instances of we are all equal but some are more equal than others, I thought this a good moment to make a statement and I'm firmly standing behind it

We don't need to have emoji reactions on my side, I'm just curious.

not taking in account the opinions of all brothers

dielo, wasn't it essentially everyone in the meeting vs you and jordan?? right back at you, take into account the opinions of everyone else who doesn't see the point in waiting

me ,jordan and entropy afaik

In my opinion, your statement here is actively harming the group by voting no on a member that you otherwise think is high quality. But you are allowed to do as you wish of course. There are other ways to express your opinions without harming Rebane. (edited)

oh, right. yes. (edited)

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/698657842445680761 I needed some way to agree with you because you brought my point across perfectly (edited)

greensmib

1

I just don't want it to seem like we're ganging up on him (edited)

23:18

What's the benefit of waiting if we already agree?

we are all equal but some are more equal than others

if it had gone the other way (3 ppl say wait, 13 + others not in council say yes now), and we decided to wait, then i'd be concerned about some being more equal than others. how are you coming to this conclusion after we go with what the consensus was? if we had waited then i'd be worried lol.

I guess Ill just live with you thinking I'm harming the group while sweeping actual harm under the rug, bending the rules for some and making changes without consent of the whole group

There are no rules for how long someone should be an initiate before they are voted

i don't think you're harming anything

Even if there are, we should be able to bend them and use them purely as guidelines. (edited)

23:21

This killed the group before we started v3.

There are no rules for how long someone should be an initiate before they are voted

@Brother Todarac we all know about the 1 month rule even if its not written in the rules channel

23:21

i don't think you're harming anything

@Brother leijurv that was a reaction to herm

The 1 month rule is written down, but that applies after the vote, not before

after the vote on getting the mason rank?

23:22

No, the rule was

23:23

If your vote doesnt pass

23:23

you have to wait a month before becoming an initiate again

23:23

there is no rule for before, like there has never been a "minimum time as initiate before voting"

If we all already agree on something we should move forward with it.

I was voted on 2 weeks after I joined

i like using wikipedia shorthand

23:24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:POINT

Wikipedia:POINT

23:24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AGF

Personally I think Rebane is a shoe-in. However, if some have personal doubts and would like to give him more time to earn their trust...

correct me if i'm wrong: no one has doubts, they just want to wait 1 month, just, because

And we already have a vote going. Which means if it fails he has to wait a minimum of one more month to be voted on again, if we so choose.

i dont get to vote?

catflushed

2

there are only 21 people in the applicant council

you were just added Breithan

23:28

sorry, nvm, mixed up channels

some reason i thought everyone with mason rank could vote

23:29

i could vote a few weeks ago

entropy keeps the applicant council rank on rotation afaik

Rebane @SpawnMason https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/353423878137315329/693997002953850901/unknown.png?width=644&height=677

Embedded image

00:06

most people like him, definitely say if you dont

00:07

vote lasts long enough to finish any discussion in here

Rebane is not only really cool to hang out with, but he develops programs many spawnmasons and 2b players in general use. Very smart and would definitely help with projects

Negative point - Mapartcraft only make .NBT and not .schematic

.SCHEMATIC IS OUTDATED (tHATS HIS REASONING)

00:15

ALSO .NBT IS JUST AS GOOD, PROVE ME WRONG

00:15

Fuck capslock

calm down

I love his answer to the question who he already knew

I just like the dude because he made an epic salc1 parody intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH5YrzFaYQI

Another 2b2t map resetter found (EXTREME TROLLING)

ill assume the vouching people trust him completely he does cool stuff and a lot of people really like him so he has my approval

lets initiate him yesterday

thistbh

3

The same. Rebane is pretty chill and adds both technical skill and maturity to the group.

well

i would like to know why @Brother Oppenheimer and @Brother Dielo say no before proceeding well i mean jordans reason is kind of a meme or is he serious

did I not change my vote?

21:02

I thought I did

oh you voted both

damn, I forgot to UNreact the no, my apologies

My vote was no because we did not have a discussion about it, I need/needed to hear the discussion about peoples views before I can confidently vote yes and give anyone with any problems about him to come forward as that would have affected my vote. As people have now had a fair chance to bring up any problems about him and none have I will now change my vote.

my no was basically the same^

that was my intention

21:05

for pinging the second time

when rebane becomes a spawn mason will he still get the 3d degree or not?

todarac thought we had the discussion but he was mistaken (edited)

21:06

idk iron

maybe 3.5d degree

@deleted-role

damn, so we are marking today as the start of 4th degree?

21:11

historic moment right here

it has been done, so yes (edited)

Im all for making an extra @3.5° role just for him

I don't feel like anything has changed enough to merit a 4th degree. Yet anyways.

3° has been a long time and authentication fallout better be the worst thing for a few years

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/699366817528938607 complete change in worshipfuls, major account exploit involving masons is not enough?

Can’t forget that guest name colors are different now too

I dont think so. Major changes with the group, memebers, activity, how we work should. Nothing has really changed yet. Start of second and third degrees began when there was pretty much a revival of a nearly dead group and inviting tons of new members rapidly.

kind of agree

22:17

but people want change - and if we do the change

22:18

it merits the 4th degree - it's just turned around timewise

Could it also be said that we aren’t the same group we used to be a few months ago?

this would represent the big change and solution

I do feel this is a possible end of the 3°

yes

yes

But not 4th yet

we are working on that yes

22:18

makes sense

I think that’s what’s happening Breithan. We have t started the 4th yet.

22:19

Reminder that I wrote the script for the third degree ritual the night before after going bar hopping with my friends. I was not sober at all when that degree was written. It turned out okay. Had some good symbolism, just a tad bit too long. (edited)

Maybe the better option would be remove degrees and make the spawnmason rank really mean something.

agreed on the 2. part

22:21

but why remove the degress

The degrees just mean which phase you were a part of. The spawnmason degree already does mean something. You’re currently active.

degrees were implemented to promote activity. we dont have this problem anymore.

they don't mean anything but history

That’s incorrect.

its just more them and us stuff.

Degrees were added to honor our members that were no longer active and to show which phases each member was part of. They are useful for time tracking and organization. (edited)

division.

it shows who's the old dud - helps when asking questions

22:21

really don't feel the degrees divide - but I might overlook something

it was put in when henry was reforming to revive the group

oh

22:22

it wasn't in the old discord?

22:22

oh no obviously not

No. They were added for part three.

there was no 2. degree

22:22

interesting argument ye - well it also wouldn't hurt removing them

22:22

we have entropy's chart

22:22

for history

I haven’t seen any division as a result of these degrees.

it served its purpose but i would like for it us all to be equal brothers without distinction. a new member feeling they have just as much to right to speak as our oldest.

They do. That’s why they have the highest degree

let's see what others think

Why does scribble want to undo everything I have introduced (edited)

What?

Ive never seen any division based on degree before.

I think he just wants to take equality as far as we can to avoid possible conflicts because of some being in "higher standing" than others

22:25

ye me neither

There isn’t any. The only division comes from scribbles attempts to undermine the group.

22:25

I don’t even know what to do about it.

22:25

Everything needs to be changed

22:25

Nothing is enough

=> agility

Where does it end

you are taking it too personal herm

lol. ok man calm down a little.

I created the group. Everything about it is personal. This is my baby.

I personally dont see a problem with the degrees either

Degrees seem fine in my opinion, its not a rank or any thing, its just like.... a badge of honor (edited)

I know I’m over exaggerating

but you singling out scribble like he's the only one with different opinions is whack

it was just a thought. not sure if we need them. i dont think it was any kind of personal attack herm

i love degrees since i know who to mute in vc (anyone without a 1° role)

22:27

(joke)

scribble: wants positive reform the group. how is this undermining?

22:32

his suggestions aren't even aimed directly at you but as the group as a whole

suggestions aren't even aimed directly at you

aren't they?

widepeepohappy1

widepeepohappy2

widepeepohappy3

widepeepohappy4

reform masons

Pepe hands

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/699369463346364507 do you really believe this is true leijurv

not really. They're aimed at the masons iong eneral.

not in the slightest charlie

22:34

but ive also heard a lot of complaints about herm's behavior specifically, and it's pretty disingenuous to say that none of the ideas are aimed directly at herm

ok. but right now i do not believe his suggestions are aimed at herm

22:35

they might have been previously but I feel like all of that has already been adressed

big

to removing degrees

They’re not aimed at me. I’ve only been taking it as if they are because anything aimed at the group feels like it’s aimed at me.

iron likes the numbers

[

soontm

] Big yes to removing degrees

i didn't get the sense that we had "moved on" or "closed" the earlier discussions about worshipful behavior

22:36

didn't realize that that was no longer on the table

sure but herm just now brought this up and we aren't really talking about that right now

22:36

we are talking about degrees

And when I see nothing wrong with degrees and scribble tries to have them removed, it just causes more stress for me because it feels unending because he’s very vocal and its felt like nobody has been on my side. Thank you all for saying that degrees are not divisive. I thought we were going to lose them to scribbles opinions of them too. (edited)

well sorry for wasting ur time then, i missed that cue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dont think everyone can read this so maybe we should move this debate back to #smibling-chat

This isn’t fun for me anymore.

You knowingly started all of this herm. It is incredible to me that you now try and play the victim card.

22:40

After multiple times stabbing me in the back, you are somehow the one who is being targeted in all of this.

22:40

Galling.

Thanks scribble.

22:41

You’re the hero.

Ok man.

The difference between me and you is that I will forgive you of everything soon enough. You will hold this against me forever.

whya re you attacking scribble

the degrees werent even your doing herm youre taking this too personaly

i dont carea bout the degrees, but herm youre attackign him for having an opinion

hari its a straw that broke the camel's back situation most likely, its not just about the degrees (edited)

That’s correct Leijurv.

22:43

And they were my doing Entropy.

herm you're fine arguing until you think no one is on your side and you play the victim card?

22:44

i don't understand

If the masons die from internal disputes it does nothing to most of you. You lose a group you were once apart of. It ruins my legacy on this server forever. (edited)

22:46

That’s why it’s personal.

"It ruins my legacy." I'm actually a child and you're acting it more than me

lul

1

Is this a joke?

Legacy?

22:46

on 2b2t?

The masons will die if we dont voice our problems and work through them

thats the craziest thing ive ever heard

It is not a personal attack but changes need to be made

I think I need to take a break from this.

I believe the masons will die if people arn't allowed to make their opinions known. Even if another brother takes it personally, its still important.

People bottling up emotions and feelings is bad for the group

agreed

This conversation happened in applicant committee

You guys can do whatever you want. I’m not going to fight for things anymore.

why do you feel like that

22:50

you can fight for what you want

22:50

you can expect everyone else to do the same?

I dont eant to take sides but wasnt he but got denied?

we shared our side he shared his?

yes?

what is wrong with that

22:52

look its done with

22:52

it happened

what? didnt say anyhting about that?

I wish we would move on but some people keep bringing things up, even though we’re in the process of fixing it all.

xd i dont understand your message iron

im building new shit and moving on

mcheart

4

it's brought up in an attempt to fix it

based

love you smurf

replace all worshpfuls with a bot that proxies the discord api and will call any api endpoint given a majority vote

22:53

bot owns the discord

22:53

solution

22:53

ez

heh

that isnt so far from the idea of having only 1 worshipful that only does things that everyone agreed on

#workingasintended Nothing is broken. Well not technically. Everyone here is going to ballance their own self interest against other people based on their relative importance to the individual making the ethical caculation. IE: expect people to sit on juicy shit even if they are masons because humans are humnas. I don't expect anyone here to leak my cords or blow up my base. I no longer expect to be told if there is a chance im about to get ass blasted by a third party

22:55

I just have to adjust my expectations

Anyways it doesn’t matter anymore. At the end of the day, I’m no longer having fun here because of the toxicity. This is causing me so much stress I can’t even focus on my real life responsibilities. I will be active again when I’m ready to, and in the meantime I will still support the projects that I have started, or am funding. Please learn how to get along and move past things everyone. We’re supposed to be brothers. Internal conflicts will be the end of the group. (edited)

herm youre reading everything as toxic

herm

22:56

its really not that toxic in here fam. take it from someone versed in the dark arts of life ruin, revenge porn, and dox. This is a 6 year old tea party (edited)

22:57

the walls here have sufficient padding

If it’s not toxic then things should be fixed soon then. I hope they are. If for some reason we aren’t able to move forward, pay close attention to those keeping us back. (edited)

[not to sound overly edgy]

There’s a video of docsmurf having sex out there

[consider my DMs OPEN, doc]

nice

No im not that dumb

23:00

although ain does have a picture of me topless in bed with an x from that one time i got drunk

Harry DMing dock right now "please send"

Exposed

where #lodge-votes go?

23:04

did I miss something?

willbe back soon

aight

™

lol

I apologize for being dramatic above. For my own sake I will be stepping back from all of these debates in at least the short term. I hope you all will do what’s best for the group and we can move forward. (edited)

were not gonna kill the group trying to improve things herm

I'd like to think people are being deliberate and careful in the new decisions, it's not just changing everything for the sake of changing everything

Yes, The new procedures should be a good thing. I’m glad we are reworking things. But internal conflicts are not a good thing. When there are people that refuse to move past old disputes and forgive others then the toxicity will stay. (edited)

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/699379387732197478 entropy closed it for everyone

bro give it a rest with the toxicity shit already

I was under the impression that worshipfuls has little sway over how the group functions. I'm a little surprised by your reactions from being asked to step down Herm. (edited)

the only toxicity is you labeling people with different opinions as toxic

I stepped down on my own scribble.

23:10

And I’m not labeling those with different opinions as toxic.

So you must see its what is best for the group too. (edited)

I’m labeling people that refuse to forgive others of past conflicts and move on as being toxic.

Else why step down?

I stepped down so we could have better changes and more active worshipfuls.

Ok cool. So why all the doom and gloom end of the group stuff?

I don't believe people aren't able to move past previous conflicts, It seems that we haven't fully resolved past conflicts and that is why they are still being discussed

Scribble, are you prepared to truly forgive those that seek your forgiveness?

like me

It isn't beating the dead horse

but he makes us work for it

Until you and some others are the toxicity will stay.

like he said to leijurv last meeting :)

You can ask the people who really know me herm, you get what you put in. be a good dude and we will get along just fine. its not really hard to be on my good side. (edited)

And I don’t want to be apart of it.

I've been watching all these arguments, and I'm not even sure what people want. People jump from one subject to another. This is not what I assumed the spawnmasons would be like when I rejoined.

I dont have any passed conflicts with people but you also called me toxic, I have not even made a big deal about it, I just moved on

This has been a long time coming D

I agree with you Jordan.

i think it will be a great thing from here on out, less conflict and more trust.

I hope so.

23:13

In the mean time I need to take a step back. The best thing we can all do individually to make sure things are okay moving forward is to forgive one another for conflicts that have happened in the past. (edited)

dloaded this is Quite abnormal

Dloaded this is how it was when I joined the masons beginning of 2019

23:27

this is total deja vu

23:28

but you are right - topics switch constantly

23:30

it's often about us not following our rules set by ourselves

were still in the fall-out zone of the authentication

23:43

corona probably doesnt help either

Another mason civil war meme I don't have the time to make

i kinda like the numbers. they dont segregate, theyre just indicative someone talked to me about making sm rank mean more but i think we addressed enough right now ill have some votes ready and id rather chill out for a bit lol

you rock - thx for putting all this energy into it

be kind to each other

yes

4

thistbh

3

memearrow

2

I'm already past it. My trust for Babba and Ox is still a bit frayed. But, I've also seen redeeming characteristics from both and get where they play their complementary roles within the group.

But you didn't have your hard work blown up like Scribble did, so you should understand why it hasn't just been let go and everyone isn't past it

thistbh

1

I haven’t even had a build exploded yet and I don’t trust either of them.

For me it's just as much they way ox has reacted and the things hes said than it is the actual exploit. And how I viewed them before. I never trusted them in the first place. I think it should be more of a question of what kind of group we are. A network of known/experienced/accomplished/talented players and we use that to make connections or do large scale projects. Or A group of friends who can trust each other, build bases without excluded anyone, and just have fun.

thistbh

2

The spawnmason rank meaning more would be a solution to this

Also i feel like somehow this convo that was in brotherchat got moved into applicant committee channel

i.e they can still do stuff with us, they just aren't always let in on the private projects

I agree. tried to point it out here https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/699372727588618300 but it didnt help

well said Breithan

Agreed with Breithan

01:00

I like a lot the second option ngl

hm true my message was kinda harsh

@D_loaded https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353441974696673282/685981461840789545

01:05

Imo it's not as simple as it seems, the tldr is that I don't agree with the basic premise that if 0x had told us then things would have been better (edited)

Image attachment

02:54

are there more votes?

02:54

i can only see the one?

02:54

Charlie is saying there is four

02:56

showed up on my phone.

There are more - check on computer

just woke up and caught up on everything since 2am, big up for entropy and his infinite patience and commitment, smib

thistbh

8

Yes. @Brother Entropy is a saint.

agreed

Entropy - the rock

Clover for initiate?

second

09:26

but

09:27

is she interested?

Yes

well I think she is an awesome builder and a super great person

09:29

good fit

l thought they didn't talk

i've spoken to her in vc

09:55

but we should definitely urge her to speak more

She’s been in VC with me many times

ye I had the same feeling

Hey, we care about activity first and foremost

10:12

plus she was at Mu, which is a huge plus for your 2b """resume"""

10:12

almost an automatic yes

sadly she was added only like a week before it was griffed (edited)

10:17

or leaked is better word

10:17

cause it's not really griefed still

mcheart

1

that it, im gonna show up there to build

don't go to the center

:^)

Clover good

11:28

I agree

11:29

Maybe she should vc a bit more?

could be a timezone issue

Mh most def

isn't she from australia?

No idea

not sure either

Yes

I didnt have much interaction with clover, but I havent seen or heard of any particular conflict so if she’s interested and no one has any arguments against, Im all for it

Am I only allowed to have an opinion if I'm a Council?

no

how can you have an opinion if you're not on the council, it's outrageous and unfair!

1

In that case, my stance is the same as Dielo

:)

Clover is great

13:01

I'm all for it too

I second

^

Clover is great. I invited her to the discord to help with the Christmas base. She didnt quite make it there in time. I dont remember if she made it to smibville but that was griefed soon after anyways. So she hasnt had anything mason wise to participate in rn but outside the masons she is very active on 2b.

clover is not interested i don't believe

15:28

she has told me this

15:29

and to be frank, she won't be active ingame with the masons

15:29

but she is one of my best friends on 2b and a very epic builder

In that case, guest is the best place to stay at for her, she can still join us ingame for certain things like other guests as well as hangout and talk here in the discord

i agree ^

i thought this too

15:53

that she wouldn't have time for the masons

I spoke to her aswell about masonry and she wasn’t interested (at the time) and wouldn’t join voice enough for it to work.

18:33

I love her and 100% would vouch if she was interested, but she isn’t (from my recollection and what Charlie said about)

It's a pity that Clover doesn't appear interested. She seemed to have a nice and subtle personality.

Seemed like she was interested.

18:46

Sent her a DM to verify.

she told me she's not explicitly

When?

multiple times

18:46

and read my above message

18:46

she is a great guest, she will be active in chat

18:46

she won't come to anything in minecraft

I understand, but from my understanding her interest to join came recently.

her interest in chatting maybe?

Perhaps

I will message her. Perhaps a feminine touch will work better.

i love anndroids "feminine touch"

(edited)

5

@HermeticLock clover said she would be interested in joining now and would be able to make meetings

redsmib

3

23:13

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/702575956556120114 responding to this

hmm, okay.

that feminine touch worked

00:31

i love clover tho shes a good fit

Charlie was definitely trying to keep another aussie out

06:02

smh

delet

Ive know clover for a long time now she’s an all around cool person and is dedicated when she’s got the time

from me

mcheart

3

last

02:08

:)

last

what the fuck is this

02:14

l;ast

02:14

: ;)

smib

what

idk hari thinks this channel is getting archived but its not? (edited)

hari this is for talking about votes not voting

typical hari

hari moment (edited)

kek

what the fuck

Image attachment

6

09:48

idk if i can post this here but im going to anyways

Clover is 23 ? Til.

09:54

2nd time being in “people i know”

09:54

I vote yes to clover

clover is my age i knew i liked her

Okay when it was clover I thought “she’s young” but ufo being 23 is a “wow old man” moment

LOL

I ote yes

Top lol

10:35

Yeh she cool

Nobody likes you when you're 23

Yes from me - Clover's great

no doubt about her

^

She helped design 2b2t.online

17:51

clover is good

^

@Brother Entropy Yo. Where them votes at?

Pint https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/642163663578595347 Clover https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/704252572554231888 we talked about both several times im not sure if anyone needs to hear anything new im not gonna ping people since everyone can vote and will be pinged for that in a day or so (edited)

I have no reservations on any of then. Both are awesome builders and wonderful in chat and vc. Reason that Pint has been a bit reserved lately is that when he got initiate the discord got locked down, so he is a bit reserved/not sure what's going on. I have reached out to him and told him I would like him as a brother. Clover is a clear yes for me too.

Pint seems a little weird but we all are, haven’t really spoken to him so I abstain. Clover Is a fat yes

pint been in vc so much but usually alone. wrong time of day i guss but no one can say he didnt try to vc alot

Yes I had to rewrite my message because he sits in there a lot

Didn't have much time to vc at all lately but big yes to Clover, Pint idk much about him so I'll abstain

abstain

for now

23:31

But other than that he seems nice

i think illville502 is a good candidate for guest and would like to invite him at some point soon

09:13

have been speaking to him a bit, mature dud with a family

I dont like @ßrother LordNo.

18:19

jkjk

:(

18:19

he's cool lul

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/719963837494722642

I’ll kill you

wdym?

18:23

I said I was joking!

He’s my adoptive father !

ok?

(This is a JOKE iron)

oh ok

@Brother F3 https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/719964840155676673

"i don't like LordNo"

21:23

i got so steamed when i read that

I would like to ask for an invite for guest for illville502 - he's one of the founders the diagonal tunnel digs they finished the - - diagonal from 5 mil to corner within 7 months and are quite far on the others - around 8 months to a year to finish they say with current progress

19:05

he's a mature dude who has a family

sounds good

sounds good to me yeah

"he's a mature dude who has a family"

20:14

i already like him

we need more screaming autistic prepubescent players in the masons tbh

wtf

heh :)

23:39

wao?

that would be funny if WAO became a mason

^

yeah it'd be funny for like 10 mins

who knows maybe he is cool?

rofl he isnt

00:46

leads a shitty pvp factions and doxxes

hmm

wao is not Mason material

00:55

although I love his videos

tbh he probably would have ez'd my base if jared hadn't done it

Wao griefed my spawn base

09:42

My best one, fucking negro

also he made the - - highway 33 wide until 2k out

10:29

masonic number

10:29

not jared, but illville502

10:30

with the crew

10:31

people notice

10:31

https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/h8468z/diagonal_higway_is_thick_af/

r/2b2t - -- diagonal higway is thick af

0 votes and 2 comments so far on Reddit

10:31

it was their response to mcren filling in the highway

10:31

making it 33 wide

why 33?

Club 33 I assume

coincidence on their part

I could see why the highway might be 3x3 or 4x4 but I question why anyone would make the tunnel any wider, especially considering every extra block of width means digging an extra 3.75 million blocks

ah that was an answer to mc_ren

02:22

he and some others filled in a lot of a highway

02:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvrs5Pbx5Jo

2b2t March of The #TeamSexy Highwaymen

02:22

so they said - if we make it 33 wide - have fun filling it in and iis apparently has some obby to gather

02:23

i don't think they plan on making it that wide till the border

the tunnel is 33 wide...? jesus

2k out I think tho - also - isn't most of that area already cleared?

02:30

when I fly around there is so much open space in the nether close to spawn now

02:37

well they want to put obby all the way to WB on the diagonals

that would simply not be possible

probably naive but I thought the 2 sacred things that it was frowned upon to grief were signs and the highways

they wouldnt be able to get more than a few thousand blocks away from spawn before they use up their dupe stashes of echests

02:42

the only way that they would be able to clog up the entire highway all the way to the world border is if they had established dupe stashes at constant intervals on the highways all the way to the border

02:42

otherwise they would just run out of obsidian and wouldnt be able to return to spawn to keep getting more

They could def do it all the way to the end of the highway?

02:45

They would just pearl out material?

I thought the 2 sacred things that it was frowned upon to grief were signs and the highways fit watcher detected

02:49

called out

02:51

Eeeeeeasy

i dont grief signs but i wither the highways sometimes

02:52

when im bored and already have them on me

shit highways are fine nowadays for geared players

02:53

blocking them up entirely is a bit much

let's see

1

02:55

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/621770507234181151/721543079626014790

can i vouch for ufo's girlfriend

00:06

Image attachment

00:07

she clearly fits in

Best entrance ngl

Ufo girlfriend is Team WAO ❓

waw

just putting this out there

Image attachment

03:45

if the issue was that he was hard to get to know cause he wasn't in vc enough, he now knows that's the reason so hopefully he would participate more

03:45

obviously the first step would be to get him as a guest, I also don't know how active he is online nowadays

if he was still interested he would probably be a mason by now

fair enough

i don't even remember seeing a vote for Alvin (edited)

this was before our time

:o

man he joined vc ALL THE TIME before being voted no

04:45

so sad

restart in 15 minutes, for those who want to get on

^oh shit I meant to post that in general

I really tried reaching out to him

06:57

But he was hurt cause he lost the vote

06:57

And never returned

huged missed opportunity

he wouldnt have been active at all

but he was soooo active before the vote

yeah he had summer

let's invite him again

yes

should I send him an invite

I think you should

are we ever going to reach out to Fake Mike? :c I miss him

he just leaves everytime lol

I miss him guys :c

thistbh

1

Nemac

Image attachment

20:42

Lordno

Image attachment

20:42

Image attachment

20:42

ill link back to them when we vote

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 26/07/2020 20:43

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 26/07/2020 20:43

UFO got listed before me so I vote no on lordno

lord

00:06

lord

abstain_neutral

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/349201680023289869/726572716181946410/ba5501ed903e5d1196cc032152e17504.gif

lord

hellno

WTF

This is a joke I love lordno

02:30

Absolutely no complaints

lord

yeshello

thistbh

1

lord

nice

lord What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Lord

nice

nicenicenicenicenice

nice

Oh I also like nemac

02:51

He seems nice

Nemac is great, he was in Haven with us 2 years ago and also came to our recent base to build

02:55

I also really like LordNo

Lord is ebic

I like both

09:50

spoke with Nemac he everyone is doing better

i like em both

@ßrother LordNo. then https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/737032134702661675 if anyone has anything else to say vote goes up tomorrow

extremely based and red pilled

Extreme based

Extremely based

so based that jared is trying to get coords

Lord based

Lord

yes

voting no because of that terrible meme posted in #general-20210704

Making another account to vote yes because it’s a dad meme and he’s a dad

Joey (edited)

Image attachment

01:56

Image attachment

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 22/09/2020 01:56

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 22/09/2020 01:57

Pork (edited)

Image attachment

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 22/09/2020 01:57

Joey an absolute CUTIE

02:30

10/10 updoot for my boy

02:31

Pork is short and sweet, haven’t really spoken to him

i have always had a good time when working with joey.

I fucking love joey

redpill

5

1

WTF PORK IS 17

lol

that means he was 14 when he was doing all those renders in 2016/2017

how do you not know that ufo

04:02

smh

nmh

pork and joey upboat

upboat

upboat

upboat

yes!

this 1000%

08:50

imo being worried about not being able to commit enough time shows responsibility and not wanting to let everyone down. Pork has been in this discord for ages now and boosted multiple times (not that that is the be all and end all, but shows that he values the group)

Dude I miss 2pork2bot

09:27

One of the few that was actually useful

yes to both. when my cat """died""" Joey sent me some pretty sincere condolences. as for pork, i've always admired him and honestly thought he was one of the original Spawnmasons. cannot believe he is only 17, tho

I have been in astral with Jeoy and I think I've never had a problem with him. Both of them seem very well known by the community, but I do not* feel like they are "cloud chasing". (edited)

You do not feel that or you do feel that @Brother Giganox

do noch

05:06

it's Scottish, Hari

>noch secret German detected

I think you mean "dyslexic german detected".

I do not* feel like they are "cloud chasing".

okok

were gonne need to make a decision on nemac lol https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/353423878137315329/737032054180675584/unknown.png

Embedded image

10:44

hes a bit quiet but people seem to trust him so

I believe the prevailing theory on his quietness and pulling back was that he was brought in at the same time that the big drama was going on and that was offputting

and he wants to participate

Image attachment

this is what he told me

Image attachment

I like him but idk he doesn't seem to partecipate a lot

10:46

hm I see

10:46

that's good

he has 4 +'es in the journal which is 4 times as much as terminator

10:48

but everytime he comes he cant join voice yknow

Ive heard him talk in voice before

i love Todarac

and if someone WANTS to participate, then I say let them in

15:19

The more the merrier as long as theyre not an insider

15:19

but also, he is like REALLY active in Emperium https://i.imgur.com/ry7WT8i.png

Embedded image

15:19

not like thats a dealbreaker or anything, but hes probably top 10 members in case anyone didnt know

15:21

and I love you too Terbin <3

minecraftheart

1

Nemac definitely worthy in my book

Nemac is an absolutely awesome guy. I fully trust he is not an insider and wouldn't leak anything on purpose or by accident (he runs a shop so is capable of secrecy). He and I have built at a number of bases in the past. He is super active in emp in all the right ways. He is hard working, good at organizing, in vc alot for pvp. I mean look at his roles. project-manager, media. -edited for spelling (edited)

pvp

pvp is just one of the many expressions of love for 2b, anarchy minecraft, and minecraft in general. I would not qualify him as a spawn pvper by nature or by personality. It is just one of the many aspects of anarchy minecraft he enjoys. Beyond that, having some pvp strength may be beneficial at one point in time. Lastly, spending time pvping on 2b is still spending time on 2b; and at spawn as well. Spending/investing time into 2b and being near spawn can only be seen as beneficial from a spawnmason perspective imo.

i would not qualify him as a spawn pvper by nature or by personality it is just one of the many aspects

exactly what i needed to hear

i love lordno!!!!!

Leijurv is a spawn pvper

21:32

Literally designed mods for spawn PvP

omfg

Vote to kick Leijurv

no

ok Hari, why don't you bring that up at the next lodge you attend

23:02

!!!!!

yeah, you feelin lucky punk?

I think Hari is the imposter

red pill opinion ^

>going to a lodge

01:29

I wish :(

01:29

I work every Saturday

yea going to lodge is overrated

Terbin I disagree

01:30

You just HATE FUN

i love fun

wasn’t there a famous German guy who hated fun

but let's have a bit of structure

01:31

then fun

01:31

and no fucking chaos all the time ;)

01:31

and if you really cared Hari

The chaos is so fun

you would change your work

01:31

so you could join :)

01:31

you don't really really care

m thats not really fair

01:32

you can care about block game and still take life above

ofc I was teasing him :)

01:33

but in all honesty

01:33

let's get the meetings a bit more structured plzzz

01:33

plzz

01:33

no more throwing vines to candidates

01:33

when they are supposed to have nothing

01:33

and things like that

01:35

we are goofing around the rest of the week

ok well do u want to help? i just suggested putting the agenda into a slideshow that is Organized and Masonic for example: https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353428205723713536/758772989020995655

that is very cool, but wouldn't it suffice if we posted it in a channel before the meeting? I think I asked that before sometime. I man slideshow is cool! but the hurdle is a bit higher to fill that ought than just posting it in a channel beforehand. Or don't you think so?

01:45

it's not so much about the materials themselves as it is to sit still for 5 mins I feel. Cause when there is Block Game Drama we can suddenly be serious.

01:45

but let's definitely try it

i think it would be easier because if someone were streaming the slideshow it would be Easier to Know What's Going On than just an agenda that someone says out loud but that you can't see or read urself

that's a good point ye

01:46

also helps with attention span, people can watch a stream

01:46

I like your brain

Should be made as Google Slides so it's easy to edit

I think I suggested something different but still similar. and it wasnt accepted because then there would be no reason to come to the lodge because people just look at the points, see there is nothing exiting or decide to not come for any other similar reason

ye i think I heard something like that too.

The Slide show is an interesting Idea. Can it be eddited "live", so we can create it together during the meeting as well? Seems like a great addition to the journal to me. Making edits to the Slides before the meeting should be possible but not necessary. I noticed that we have a lot of guests right now and I know that I'm partially responsible because we were looking for ppl to play another game. I would prefer to play with you instead of with guest, but I'm totally fine with common acquaintances tho. All I want to ask for is a Method to filter more efficiently who might be here to stay and who does likely not. Speaking of people who will stay; I spend some time with joey in VC while playing among us. He seems like a chill dude

(edited)

I like that we have new guests, they are pretty nice people

15:35

and nicely said giganox

so yea ill take lordnos word for it

23:21

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/758624646358237214

23:22

charlies guest

23:23

damn charlie still asks me how me / the masons are doing every so often

yeah he checks in with me from time to time

ye he speaks with me once in a while too

nemac no cause doesn't talk in vc emp spawnfag doesn't talk that much in discord

Agree, I've only heard him once in voice

Yeh I'm not too much convinced

I'd personally like to have him but I can understand why people wouldn't

00:50

¯\(ツ)\/¯

same

Warlord seems to like him. that's good enought for me. I don't share much of a time slot with him, so I gonna trust you. (edited)

I can totally understand the reticence with the lack of vc. So even if he doesn't pass this time I feel it is something we can mention to him as a goal for him to make if he really is serious about joining

greensmib

1

yeah I've heard from charlie too

I’ve barely spoken to him but the limited talks have always been good

Nemac has been in vc a little more than he used to be... i've heard nothing about him as a spawnfag, tho.

04:29

from my interactions with him, he doesn't have the personality of a spawnfag

04:29

plus he spends most of his time travelling

04:30

so (i, at least) don't see where the spawnfag accusation is coming from

04:31

he has come out to the last few lodges (sporadically). but yes, i totally agree, he does need to talk more in the vc

told nemac why people voted no and he understands

02:14

whooever vouched for joey / pork its your task to get them involved and or pull them to lodges if possible

I wouldbe surprised if anyone voted no for Joey

03:40

I predict that he will pass with 100%

joey is real cool. i'd vote him for sure

Joey had family stuff this weekend, he thinks he’ll make the next one

weird

05:21

my family had joey stuff this weekend

uwu they said they were gonna come visit but only your wife showed up

someone has to tend to the kids, cook, and clean

05:28

that someone being me

it’s okay I sent her home, said I only wanted to see her husband. The MAN of the family

hows the black eye?

Hurting

last opinions on joey please this week will be complicated enough already without an initiation so if it happens it will be for next week

i like him

Yes

Absolutely

Yas

16:42

Very aaaaaaaaaaa

yes

aye

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/757767117075382322

Love Joey

23:55

very cool, will be a fun brother

dont

Current opinions on zippie please .

00:14

Image attachment

>Emperium

00:21

Idk him please others comment

as over the last couple of years it has turned into a shitshow of retarded screaming

heart_eyes_cat_BOLD

He’s literally using masons as the “old fag country club”

00:27

I love it

plusone

00:28

LGTM

I very much like zippie. Hard worker, trustworthy, awesome, chill, I have never seen him make a single swastika

Not complaining or saying no to zippie, but when floyd and I joined the discord as guests we built and were active at several bases for several months before even getting initiate. It seems now that people get proposed very quickly. Not saying this is bad if we are moving away from interaction on 2b as the deciding factor for initiate, just though I’d point it out as something I have noticed. Smib

Everyone’s different

‍♂️ it really just comes down to your clout in the system

yeah hari got in like 2 months after he first joined 2b2t

Maximum clout harri!!

01:24

Hari is cool :^)

I also didn’t get initiate until I complained that they gave it to phoenix because she was dating BabbaJ ;)

01:24

(then, as expected, I was denied hehehe)

Dude who gives a shit about clout lol

literally everyone

01:25

clout is just who knows you

01:25

If I’m friends with someone I’m gonna get them initiate ASAP, and if they’re friends with a bunch of masons really quickly they’ll get approved

Yeah I see that and it makes sense

01:26

Just thought maybe they should build a bit first

@Brother Wailn I totally get what you are saying. Once they become a mason it’s not like there is an additional level beyond that, they get all bases etc so we need to know they are long term and trustworthy

01:27

That being said, zippie was here before, has built with us before, and was initiate before. So his expedited journey may be reflective in that past engagement

i havent been around and have no idea who zippie is so i will trust what my brothers and sister decide

redpill

2

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/772268878302543902 lol ikr I was guest for months

01:38

I think zippie is cool but what Wailn said is rather true lol but Ig the group and the people in it changes and so do the decisions we make

Some people are initiate for months some arnt. It’s not new

wailn several initiates / guest are helping the party committee, a lot were at the train, some are at the chunk base, some are at consta base and you wont see most it because youre not at them

called out

same for you hari

Mm but I said others should speak on it

you also said called out :p

that's fair entropy

we have some past history with zippie before wailns time

01:50

so for you it seems kinda random

01:54

theyre all building somewhere and all of them have shown lasting activity on 2b

01:54

should come to the bases and youll know

I will, I enjoyed the train very much

Ya wailn you're right but we need affirmative action towards new initiates, we haven't had enough new members this year

01:57

We can increase rate without sacrificing quality hopefully

01:57

Hopefully

I'm sure we can, and I don't have a problem with any of the guests, I'm sure they are all legit

so more thoughts on zippie please if you have them

he's still kinda retarded idk

its a

from me atm

Zippie has been very active at our constantiam base and would come to a 2b one if invited @Brother Wailn He has been very active in vc over the last month mainly in the among us discord (with other masons) there has been few active vc's in mason discord over the last month but he has joined when there are. In the past he has been part of mason 2b projects (before some of you guys time). I have known him for over 3 years and think he would be a good fit. @brother noname he is a lot less retarded now (on par with some other masons

) which is why I vouched for him now

10:14

He also helped me build the maze lodge on constantiam, he built like over 1/2 of it! He also has a lodge idea that he want to build and will reserve the first available week after he gets initiated. (it will be a game lodge) (edited)

yea he's less retarded now I will admit

i've barely interacted with him, so i don't really have an opinion.

20:34

i have played Among Us with him several times, tho, and i don't remember him being annoying

20:34

or really oustanding in anyway

did he do anything on 2b?

20:37

other then that I would also add him. He seems like a cool dude

i havent been around and have no idea who zippie is so i will trust what my brothers and sister decide

this, I don't think I've ever interacted with zippie but I trust others' opinions

I don't know zippie well either. Seems chill, but i certainly don't know enough to give a properly informed opinion

every mason right now: I don't know him so I will trust the other masons' judgement

02:09

catflushed

(((That's what got beardler into bgm)))

be in voice and talk to him lol we can wait longer before voting get him to the 2b base tell him to write a 10 page essay on his travels on 2b (edited)

I don't have much ground to stand on here, given that I've spoken to zippie only once that i can recall, just through whispers at the const base BUT i am still of the opinion that the masons should strive to be a collection of exceptional players, and so any new recruit should ideally have some greater selling point than just "he seems nice" and "other masons are friends with him" again, i want to stress that this is not meant to imply zippie doesn't fit the above, but given this: https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/772643403082891335 I felt i might as well throw in my two cents, not about any particular initiate, but of the process as a whole (edited)

Henry's got a point

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/567579298362425344 1.5 years ago me and a few others said much of the same

yeah, i actually am reading old messages in here too

02:24

Image attachment

zetlin had the issue that he was very new and we didnt know how he would hold up

02:25

henry states every message without addressing zippie directly lol

02:25

nobodys gonna disagree with it

02:26

you vote as you feel is right but this discussion is exactly to see how zippie holds up

02:27

i honestly feel that he included almost nothing in his application about what he has done on the server (edited)

02:27

while i know hes done a bunch of things

wdym every message, i've just sent one

ok one then

02:28

but then boomerang agrees with it

well i tried to make it clear i wasn't advocating against zippie

02:29

or saying that zippie isn't an interesting candidate, so i think we're in agreement that more time is probably good

sounds good to me

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/772644893343350864 THIS. even though the first time i mentioned it i was laughed at, i do think that "brother potential" should seriously be considered. (edited)

can we all point and laugh at pint

02:37

also following that logic, who is Harri? Who is this “pint”?

02:38

Regarding the part of people being note worthy

i'm ok with there being exceptions. how else would you and i have been let in?

redpill

1

yes this

imo more time for zippie

03:02

he's a lot better but I still wanna see

@here I would like to invite villicool as guest, any objections?

not a fan

18:47

Random pings in the among us discord, also wasn't he the crafting table dude?

I'm a bit split on whether we should allow villi

he only pings @gameping harri

no he doesnt

18:49

oh

18:49

maybe that was aholic

18:49

im trying to find (edited)

wasn't he in brownmen?

still not a fan

Villi has been cool when we've interacted, but I'm not sure if trustworthy

He is really nice to talk to, I have spent a long time in vc with him over the past few weeks & think he has "mason potential" so would like to have him here as guest so other people can get to know him

Wasn't he one of the ones who was bullying Finstaa?

18:51

kept on dismantling his builds

Hi! Friendly neighborhood noob here! Is there any set criteria for guests?

they have to be good

Villicool nah

18:51

He's unstable

they have to not leaky

ok

Also he made a lot of noise with the crafting table shit

18:52

Not a fan

Also was in emp while I was buyilding the spawn omegas and was one of the first to start greifing it, then making fun of emp while still in emp, then jumped to brownmen group

hmm yes i vote no on villi (edited)

shifty

guests are halfway between "by consensus" and "by veto"

18:53

even just a few hard nos is enough to not invite

ok!

i say "eh" to villi

villi is cool to talk to but he's a faggot

thats why I just want guest so we can talk

he seems like someone whoi would share what we say

19:00

which is why im already nota biggus fan

he dose not even play 2b anymore

doesn't that take away brother potential

19:03

does he play const?

19:03

(i'm hypocritical, i know)

well do you want him as guest to talk or do you want him as guest because you think he has brother potential

I don't mind villi

lets be honest, who actually plays 2b regularly anymore

19:06

there are 3 masons in VC with villie right now!

I saw 3 masons in vc with elon one time, doesn't mean he gets in ;)

i wuv ewon (edited)

@Brother Hari you never in vc

redpill

2

i was at last lodge

19:23

btfo

I have personally invited villicool in the past iirc

19:27

We ended up just kicking him

ecks dee

Image attachment

terbin so redpilled

Image attachment

19:38

I think he's annoying

lol @ me being a fucking broken record.

19:40

He is sooo active in vc and nice to talk too (edited)

maybe if he'd villiCOOLED it

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/773992263013105664 lol this

21:11

I'm cool with talking with him in 2b chat or anywhere else but I don't think he belongs in here

Then talk to him in Reapect Club and Among Us disc

hes not in respect club

Was tho

22:12

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/774028162539454514 who are you talking to hari

Jordan three messages above....?

yeah as said above, he's the one who raided womens discord and put my girls at risk, although keep in mind he did then apologise in DMs

i'm not that big a fan of vilicool

Ah oke my bad

villicool does not sound cool (edited)

00:13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/353423878137315329/773994589631283210/image0.png

Embedded image

i killed villicool at a lodge a few months back

it's not that he's done anything, it's just the vibe i get from him: how he talks and how he navigates conversation. he seems low-key douchy

04:19

i'm no opposed to him being a guest, but i don't think he'll be a keeper in the long run

04:20

i kinda get Marcel vibes from him

lol

15:33

>multiple day discussion on if we should invite villicool

15:33

>someone just invites Destiny instantly

lol what the fuck dude I thought you were taking the piss

15:36

then I checked guests... (edited)

did someone remove his join message? it was just in general a minute ago

Please be joking please be joking please be joking

did someone ask if they could invite him? I didn't see it but I also wake up with 400 messages sometimes and can't read them all

Image attachment

Image attachment

15:42

No fucking discussion

15:43

At all

15:44

This is not cool

15:47

@Worshipful pls fix or bring to a vote

Are you crazy todarac

15:47

you're going insane

15:47

no destiny

15:47

he's seeing things

confirmed

15:48

lamp did it

He was just typing in chat and i searched him and he comes up in the querry

15:48

Yes

He's not in memberlist

15:48

I checked just now

https://i.imgur.com/bdCcVsV.png

Embedded image

15:48

your am disabled

15:49

https://i.imgur.com/csYMljU.png

Embedded image

Image attachment

oh

15:49

maybe he found our end base

oh lol

Image attachment

we sent a link to whoever found the end base

15:49

why did you ban him retard

15:49

God damn it

15:50

now he's gonna grief the end base

wow, truly a guest we want in here

why did he not show up on memberlist normally

bad app

15:50

i had to go to search his name

alright hold on

wow, truly a guest we want in here

@Brother Todarac did you not read what I said

unban him

Done

gdi

lamp literally worst worshipful smh

either we wdl and nuke the end base or we give him the finstaa treatment and lock him to the end base channel

dont tell me you actually want him in here

either we wdl and nuke the end base or we give him the finstaa treatment and lock him to the end base channel

@Brother Fruit chill

15:52

dont tell me you actually want him in here

@Brother Todarac no but I don't want our base blown up

i provided two options of varying chillness

we can restrict him to base chat only

15:52

chill the fuck out lol

???????????

15:52

i am chill

15:52

i literally proposed that

yea not you

ufo is panicking

todarac

15:52

lol

15:52

stfu niggie

and projecting his panic onto others

oh my god you need to chill out bro

first you accuse lamp of gaslighting

redpill

1

yes

1

2

gonna put you in time out

now you accuse ufo of projection

lamp called me out for being wrong when he was objectively wrong

you love to see it

i blame discord

I love it when people are super smug then wrong

what's the big issue with destiny? he's another retarded kid, there are plenty of them, is there something i'm missing that makes him unique

he's just a tard

15:53

but we can quarantine to end base

15:54

let me dm him

or just ignore him

when someone shows up at a base you'd like to keep intact

15:54

the only option is to try and work something out

how did he find it doe

well we certainly won't find out if we "just ignore him"

I found out

15:59

#spawnmason

is there any good reason for destiny being here

16:26

can't read the 200 messages above atm

16:26

because I'm not too happy about it

he found end base

good now I'm even more unhappy (edited)

lol

16:27

why does everyone hate destiny

he's not herw

16:27

he's just in end base chat

16:27

no general

because he's an obnoxious and annoying kid

if he joins vc I'll take that away too

16:27

laizboi "accidentally" leaked it in a vc

16:27

tldr

16:27

remain calm

a

16:28

that's great. (edited)

in vc? how the fuck

16:29

(x)

16:29

10000000

streaming

even more great

how did he leak it

16:32

waypoints on?

not sure

16:37

we'll talk about it at the meeting

@Brother Oppenheimer read here

16:45

lazyboi leaked it in vc by accident

did he also leak the fitmc thing

what

kk

the FitMC Troll

what fitmc troll

16:47

am I missing something

oh yea

16:47

he did

16:47

the fitmc baritone troll script

16:47

damn not looking good for laziboi

16:47

baritone bots

16:48

@Brother Floyd

ah okok

16:48

wait was that meant to be private

yes

kinda limited to masons

>floyd also leaked it

nono I didn't lolle

16:49

just to be sure I didn't show anyone anyways

lmfao

16:49

Floyd like that was supposed to be private? (edited)

I like that he took the safe approach and just didn't share it anyway

LOL

16:50

plus I was lazy to actually send it anywhere

16:51

laziness do be godlike

ur Italian of course ur lazy xd

redpill

2

can relate

Leaky leaky

fitmc troll? May I be let in on da sekrets?

big pdf

the baritone bot video isnt real

17:20

omfg

how they tricked him into making those baritone bot videos

17:20

its like, not even fair to fit to really give him a hard time about it

17:20

it was a CONCENTRATED effort

17:21

an actual conspiracy

it was a deadly troll

deadly troll

Yep

17:22

Fitmc is dead

17:22

No recovering

lmao

17:49

which one of you dunderfucks let Univercious in (edited)

omg just scroll up (edited)

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/774308769466417193 @Brother Pint

hari moment

fuck you

lol

1

i read the whole. just no one atraight up said "i invited him"

yes

18:01

Image attachment

Figuring out how/why Univercius was invited is the new coord quest.

lol

you will find hints hidden across three channels

18:05

muahaha

why you all hate Destiny so much?

18:42

he changed and is not annoying anymore

Nope

sounds subjective

its also subjective to think that he is annoying

yes

18:44

it is what it is

hes ok

18:44

kinda cringe tho

I just feel very sorry for him bc he cant do anything about how ppl view him bc he was like that in the past. imagine not getting a second chance

18:45

ok

he threatend a base to get invited thats not good at all

he didnt threaten the base

Easy to do something. Change your name.

18:47

People do it all the time.

lol

18:48

i miss read the sign

oh okay lol

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/774344275995525140 not always successful

he should just become trans

18:48

uwu

18:48

jk

salhack -> summit -> whatever the fuck is now

pyro

18:49

what does that have to do with univercicus tho?

18:49

look he tried to change his name

true

i told him to

the signs and sneaky email address feel a bit like a larp.

what email address?

But I think the larp was to seem cool enough for us

18:52

if that makes sense (edited)

I dont see what signs he put...

nice 4:3

lol

18:54

that sounds like he is very obbsessed with us

brings back memories kek

y?

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/749307404927238204/774224898661941268

y?

what

iron isn't in end chat

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/749307404927238204/774224898661941268

@Brother Entropy doesnt load for me for some reason (phone)

it's in there iron

what

@Brother Floyd idk what memories

I'll dm u it iron

the link is to the announcements tho?

no thr link to the signs he left

i guess it defaults to first channel when its invalid access (edited)

18:59

just say youll come to the base iron lol

idk what memories

my memories lmao

iron wants a copy please

19:00

floyd

of my memories

brings back memories kek

@Brother Floyd this is just confusing then

yes do you have a brain computer interface (edited)

gives me NPEs

yes

bc I have null bytes there

throw new IronException()

LOL

when there's 200+ messages but you have to read them cause it's not #general-20210704

Image attachment

01:04

that sounds like he is very obbsessed with us

he is, he's the guy who has tried to ask many of us "what's your top tips for getting into the masons" and "can you get me into the masons"

the more you ask the more no

ye

01:07

makes me wonder how he knew the catflushed was the mason discord's favourite emoji

01:07

or is that everyone's favourite?

i wonder why....

Image attachment

smile

1

01:08

also i think leijurv and co spread the cat stuff everywhere

lol nvm

OwO (edited)

I dont think he knew that

08:07

he just built it bc it fit

How do we feel about adding Generic German Soldier as guest? (edited)

1

22:59

@Brother Entropy

need to give time for objection

Even for guest?

yes

ok.

does he play

23:01

i have no idea who this is

Yes. He plays 2b. And he plays among us with us every time. He was in the game with us today (edited)

No idea who he is

11:30

I'll leave this decision up to amongusmasons

No idea who that is

@[HR/PR/G] Rebane v3 @Brother Floyd thats the point of guest! One (or some) brother like someone and wants others to get to know them too! You just need to say if you dont want a guest and tell us why.

uhm Ig no opinion

18:57

since I don't know him I'm not opposed

jordan freaks me out with the excamation marks

WHY!!!!!!!!!!! (edited)

!!! guests

He’s angry!

Yata (420YATA69, yatagarasu7777, xz_7) for guest? He is a good friend i have been doing shit in spawn with, he also co-lead the incursion, co-lead crimson, and now is a high level SBC member. Nice guy and is doing a lot of stuff around the server lately

built at the train

generic was a crafting table cult guy i think. he also made a few map arts a year ago.

generic is cool. that's all i can say on him

Fuffer

This is where we vote on all new members becoming spawn masons. Simple rules for acceptance:

don't be a shitter
have a mic, no sqeakers or relentless shitposting
respect the rules and privacy of the group
when first joined as Initiate, make sure to spend time in voice chat getting to know other Spawnmasons
60% vote yes for the initiate to become approved.
90% of the applicant committee must vote within 48 hours of the vote cast
- if unapproved, wait a week to cast a second vote.
- if unapproved twice, kicked from the group.
in special circumstances, serious vouches need to be placed to be approved if the vote doesn't pass.

test

21:44

cool

dont do this to me

wtf

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/772252098880208936

14:38

We should vote soon lol

14:39

first conv

14:39

https://discordapp.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/772262361327075338

14:39

#zipper

14:39

if you have anything new say it now

oh god oh fuck will i have to add a cuck she'd (if he's accepted)

no itll be for next week if

oh ok

hes not like a zetlin, hes been around for a long while playing 2b since we gave him stuff to do so thats good been around a lot i wont mind making him blue

yes for zippie

Zippie is good so far never had problems with him

brother noname

yes for zippie

Warms my heart to see this

I always liked zippie when he's not being annoying and spam pinging me in the among us discord

I really like zippie. He and I have gotten close playing Among Us together. Big yes from me.

Yeah same. Hard worker, trustworthy, doesn't make dumb mistakes with coords or clients. He is nothing but checkmarks in my books.

didn't he leak his or Jordans stash to haxified (edited)

17:39

@Brother Oppenheimer

brother noname

didn't he leak his or Jordans stash to haxified (edited)

Yes he did, but that was a long time ago and he has learnt his lesson.

good good

i have no worthwhile opinion on Zippie

I still haven’t really spoken to him, but that’s my own fault. I trust Jordan’s judgement and he seems very enthusiastic.

i think it's fine to go for it (voting) as long as we don't bandwagon vote - if your sentiment is (like mine) i don't know zippie but trust the brothers who do know him, then don't jump onto the yes

yes

without your own reason (especially if some are

)

Yea

in scenarios like these, i just don't vote

Are there any negative opinions on zippie? Or just positive, and neutral? Might be good to hear from dissenters.

zippie is cool, hard worker too

Brother Pint

in scenarios like these, i just don't vote

Thats why I had the abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

emoji added. If you abstain it means you have seen the vote but have no opinion either way. If you just dont vote it looks like you dont care/ ignored it!

^

23:06

big brain

abstain is a godsend

00:02

nothing is worse than uneducated voting !

or you guys could be good masons and get to know them zippies been in vc plenty;)

thistbh

3

He is also at TWO of our bases!

There are mason bases?

00:09

/s

abstain_neutral

01:47

he seems good but i barely know him

Brother Oppenheimer

Thats why I had the abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

emoji added. If you abstain it means you have seen the vote but have no opinion either way. If you just dont vote it looks like you dont care/ ignored it!

woops, forgot abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

was a thing. i've been on Discord using my desktop, which for whatever reason, neither allows me nor shows my reactions (unless i go looking for them).

didnt really see him in game but in vc he is a cool person

he's at both bases

i like how he afks a lot and doesnt have velocity on.

perfect for pranking

i fishing rodding him all over last lodge

So..... Kelvster & villicool112 for guest? plox

21:32

also Günther

21:32

all chill guys and good to talk to in vc!

kelvador and villi im not sold on yet

we just had a discussion on villi like a week ago

Embedded image

I will say it publically

21:56

yes to villicool

ofuck you

I love kelvidore. If it's the same rock climbing, music making, ex-emp Kelv I know.

broder lampa

villi is cool to talk to but he's a faggot

smiley_cat

so true

ßrother LordNo.

I love kelvidore. If it's the same rock climbing, music making, ex-emp Kelv I know.

It is

Me no likes villicool (edited)

22:19

I think kelvidore was here before?

what is going on here

Image attachment

Brother Todarac

yes to villicool

?

I can think both

uh

22:38

to me, that doesn't make sense

henry get in vc you fucking egg

im in class

[ x ] he is cool to talk to but hes a faggot [ x ] yes to having him in here

22:39

both of these facts are true

yeah why would you want a 'faggot' here

because hes cool to talk to

22:40

also when the fuck did you become auth right

22:40

why dont you like faggots

did lamp literally mean homosexual

22:41

i am almost certain he did not

what class is it

22:41

can we help

answer my question

22:42

no

answer my question

22:42

no

lol

@Brother Fruit you just got called out

22:42

you are on destiny

nope

22:42

i have it idling on my desktop

22:42

i guess

22:42

im on my laptop in class in another room

Brother Fruit

yeah why would you want a 'faggot' here

we asked ourselves the same thing when we were debating letting you back in (edited)

22:46

jkjk don't hate me Henwy

what have i ever done to you

holy SHIT henry just got destroyed

so true

No i don't want villi here

22:52

I'm homophobic (edited)

based

HENRY BTFO

My concerns with Villi is the clout chasing at any cost, and the dangerous impulsiveness. 1. Clout chasing, I have seen him switch between groups and turn on groups when there is promise of clout. 2. Impulsivity, things like raiding the Women's Discord irk me. When Clover spoke about the raid she said "...and put my girls at risk". I agree that guest should be open to people that someone members don't "like" or find annoying, that should be whatever. By anyone who has taken an action that has made a Mason feel unsafe I feel should be a line we draw.

^

wtf I hate villicool now

yea i dont think villicool will happen doesnt matter that youre nice to talk to if you pissed people off it will get back at you here gunther was at the train and plays, when i look for kelv i see him raging at the 5 hours slowmode in uncool and raging at my coordinate quest no objections to those (edited)

i do not like vili. i've been in vcs with him before and he (occasionally) comes across as arrogant and condesending. it's a subtle thing, but it's there none the less. (edited)

Brother Pint

i do not like vili. i've been in vcs with him before and he (occasionally) comes across as arrogant and condesending. it's a subtle thing, but it's there none the less. (edited)

haha lol, are we talking about the same villie?

vilicool? idk there were 2 vilis

I dont think there are but he has never seamed "arrogant and condesending" to me. He is always a right laugh in vc.

21:02

Thats why I want him in here, he is really fun to talk to in vc's, always have a laugh!

i only have one incident that stands out in my memory - and it was even like it was really there. just a hint of it. maybe it's bc it was my first real interaction with him that it stood out.

21:56

i'm not opposed to him being a guest (he is cool and levelheaded otherwise), but i'm suspicious of what he might be in te long run.

There's also the case that he can be different things to different people

22:34

Everyone acts slightly differently depending on who they're with

^

my quote that ufo pasted above comes from this villicool context https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/566749523666534402/742554406444335155

Image attachment

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 27/11/2020 02:56

Been a month input on Rathause please

hell yea

03:03

yeshello

yeshello

1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2apben81IV8

This has been a super busy month for me and I haven’t really spoken with him. I will abstain for now but make an effort to get to know him more.

He seems cool

he placed 200k obby

I am a big proponent of team Rathaus

03:34

please please please

03:34

yeshello

so hes a pretty impressive builder, showing it at the end place been around enough done a lot of shit on the server, shown himself to be a lasting player the only reason i ever got closer to him was because i asked him how voco was doing and he said he had left tbh

left voco

based department

We NEED him in here

rathause is best hause

Rathause is a G-to-the-Nth°

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/781714017734885408 @Gebrüder Zippie

Kelvster seems big epic, but unless I missed something, I don't believe we discussed him. Perhaps I misunderstand guest procedure, but this seems incorrect (edited)

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/780908510799462421

Thank you very much ufo

eepy Joe

Kelvster seems big epic, but unless I missed something, I don't believe we discussed him. Perhaps I misunderstand guest procedure, but this seems incorrect (edited)

Kelvidor doesn’t play anymore so it’s basically a hard no

Gebrüder Zippie

Kelvidor doesn’t play anymore so it’s basically a hard no

what

he might think were talking initiate since were in this channel

14:23

but we were really just talking guest

Ohhhhh

14:23

Ok nvm

zippie you're not allowed to have an opinion yet either you're too new

14:24

ufo shut

jk jk

ufo

1

1

e

a (edited)

sportz

What if we made abstain 1/2 of a no vote

05:03

So two abstains would make a full No vote (edited)

i have literally thought about this before

05:06

but people only abstain because they dont want influence

05:06

do this and they wont vote anything

I want abstain because sometimes I feel like we’re voting before we know these people

Isn't the point to acknowledge you have seen the discussion but hold no opinion in it?

you can vote no bird

05:07

nobody will kill you

Otherwise it would make sense to ask for it to be delayed

But it’s not justice to vote no for someone I don’t know

05:07

And analytically this lack of knowledge should be reflected in the vote

05:07

By a half percentage

can we have a vote that isn't abstain, and isn't no, but is "i literally don't know them"

05:07

great

05:07

problem solved

And counts towards the vote

so there's • yes • no • i don't care • i don't know them

I don't even know who you are

ah yes it can be a thanos emoji

if you have this opinion then you should just give it when were discussing and we will delay

05:08

henry did it last time

I have no idea who rathsomething is and I would have voted no but like 1/3 of us voted abstain

05:09

So that’s a hole in the voting

05:09

A large percentage of us are literally “lol whoing” this man

i think multiple of their reasoning is above and they very much did not want to bring the % down in any way

My reasoning is I don’t want to vote no on someone who I don’t know

in the way that it was their own fault for not knowing yet

If I don’t know them we call it a half vote and if it fails they get to get to know me for a second try

05:12

I know you’re fighting hard for your train workers here Michael but we’re not the Walmart masons this is the spawnmasons

well im p convinced that if someone doesnt know rathause by now its because they themselves havent been around enough

:airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn: :airhorn:

:airhorn:

I’m here to break up the train workers union

05:14

Im in the loop I’m hip I’m jive and I still don’t know this rat guy

05:14

That rhymed

05:14

Pretty epically

theres like two possibilities you havent seen them and its because theyre not active enough > vote no you havent seen them and its because you havent been around > vote abstain

05:16

. if you are convinced of the first then you should vote no

05:17

its perfectly fair

what if everyone gaslights you into thinking they've been around but you have literally never talked to them

05:17

(speaking hypothetically)

Брат Bird

I know you’re fighting hard for your train workers here Michael but we’re not the Walmart masons this is the spawnmasons

holy fuck LOL

05:18

Shots fired

Entropys draconian sympathies have gone on long enough

that doesn’t make any sense

Yes it does

Nick i’ve fought this battle before

Do you know what draconian means

time is a flat circle (edited)

you can search this channel for paragraphs of my effortposting

Image attachment

Image attachment

raging about LiterallywhoMasons

05:20

eventually I gave up

05:20

Because the majority of the group by that point didn’t see eye to eye with me on the issue

05:20

And that was okay

I’ve always pondered literal who masons

I just stepped back and stopped caring

but at this point 1/3 of us abstained

thank you for your valuable input henry

If those 6 were no he would be at something like 56% (edited)

Rathaus is somewhat lesser known, but imo he is a perfect fit. as to the percentages i have no idea admittedly

I think i meant to vote on Rat but forgot

05:22

He seems “okay” to me but we just spoke once

nice guy, non idiot, good builder

05:23

really cant ask for much more

hes building at every base we have hes building with party com for christmas (if youre not at those bases then thats your fault) hes been in voice enough but maybe just at the bad times for certain people to catch him hes done a lot on 2b before us

05:25

_ Also bird, have this discussion before we vote and not after it the way we count votes wont change after we did it but if you want it to change we talk about it at meeting

I’m going to start my own newfag initiative to combat the train union then you’ll see

oke

Wait until the CalculatorMasons :3

I’m looking at this as an oversight in the voting abstain meaning nothing

05:26

In this circumstance those abstains could have swung the vote

calculator masons

05:26

this but unironically

05:26

this would be society if 0neb in the masons

I've debated destroying the calculator instead of bringing 0Neb tbh

?

but 0Neb will be given a high rank in the Ram Ranch Caliphate soon

05:28

but the calculator builders

05:29

i have mobilized a small army for this project

Брат Bird

In this circumstance those abstains could have swung the vote

the point of abstain is to NOT swing the vote

Okay but if we’re going off a percentage of us to get these guys in

it would be nice to add a "not yet" option

Why I like my idea but it’s whatever

05:32

I’ll just vote no from now on

I introduced the applicant council to try and address this issue. I wasn’t in favor of abstain because of exactly this situation, but I also wasn’t in favor of people voting in a bandwagon or not voting at all. So I tried to create a group of people I could count on to really get to know initiates to make decisions for the group

05:32

Obviously that system didn’t survive

05:33

There’s clearly no simple answer

05:34

I think that what we have now is good enough for the current incarnation of the group

Brother leijurv

it would be nice to add a "not yet" option

this option is called “No”

yes

i am too much of a fucking pussy to click that button henry

its called no

lol too true

05:39

nobody wants to be seen as a dickhead

05:39

maybe blind voting

Like the IRLMasons?@!

in a perfect world: compulsory voting, no abstain, each yes/no must be accompanied by a rationale

yea i tried that

05:42

never again

how’d it turn out

people went off app com

Yeah not surprised

05:43

hence “perfect world” :P

:P

In a world of only 0Nebs pleading_cat

pleading_cat

lmao

If abstain out numbers both yes and no though

06:00

Does that mean anything

still gets complicated

06:03

what with a person who doesnt vote

06:08

the system is fine people just need to dare to vote no when it makes sense to

06:08

and they need to discuss when i call it

06:08

and say when its too early

06:08

we got like nothing this time https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/781714017734885408

Yeah it’s true

06:13

I initially voted abstain because I haven’t spoken with him, but his application mixed with the fact that lots of other people know him and that he is building and active at bases made me switch to yes. I realized that it was my fault for not getting to know him more, and that I trusted my brothers

fuck abstain if you're voting abstain you aren't doing your job to get to know initiates. abstain shouldn't count for shit because it means you don't know them

Brother Entropy

well im p convinced that if someone doesnt know rathause by now its because they themselves havent been around enough

based

rathaus is cool

2

ufo is right

17:54

I don't see the point of voting abstain

17:55

I think its a counterproductive react

participation

It's a cop out, tbh. The ostensible point is to vote even though you acknowledge you don't actually have an opinion...and that should only happen when you haven't interacted with the initiate enough to form one. In that case you should just not vote. (edited)

I agree, but what if participation is not a choice? What if you are super busy and haven't gotten to know the person but still want to show that you are here and paying attention to the politics enough to know there is a vote but recognize you havent put enough work into being able to make an educated vote?

I would just post that in this channel

17:58

The goal is to create a healthy enough system that isn't going to be looking to purge people left and right

true

17:59

a vote in council with only 2 yes's will speak volumes on its own, it doesnt need 13 abstains next to it. (edited)

Yep

18:00

And that sort of gets into the need for a human look at the votes

18:00

Not just a numerical threshold

18:01

I understand this is a bit controversial...given the terbin worshipful vote and all

yea like how entropy did the votes for worshipful last time

18:01

bad way

18:01

or so several masons have told me

brother noname

or so several masons have told me

this

18:02

i obviously wasn't present

18:02

but i have heard the story

infamous lore

18:03

entropy did my boy terbin so bad

when you specifically ask if its a good idea to count this way and everyone says its fine but then everyone says its bad afterwards

we shouldn't do it that way moving forward is all I'm saying

iknow

18:12

i have a plan

Negative_Entropy has left the game

entropy never did me bad

bee

while I thought the count was weird

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

entropy asked before

18:17

and we agreed

18:17

on weighted average

yea but i quickly realised the problem lol

ye me too after

18:17

but

18:17

we agreed, so I couldn't complain

hindsight is 20/20

18:18

in all fairness I didn't even know how a weighted average works

ye like most issues with humans

18:18

we can solve it in the future with better communication

i also didnt want to propose the change until we need it

ye agreed, we needed some stability

we should also never vote on 4 worshipful at a time imo

18:19

one at a time was good

sounds good

(this should be in sm not app com but i couldnt care less cause its the same member slice)

18:21

the problem we had before is that we would never get rid of a worsh

18:21

unless they themselves ask to

18:22

so they would just remain indefinitely which doesnt have to be bad but it never made room for new

18:23

like how do you ask someone to step down if theyve done a fine job

well i think it should't be too bad

18:27

like when Todarac stepped down because he had no time

18:27

if you as a worshipful step down in good standing

So no term limits whatsoever?

you will get re-elected almost 100%

18:27

like the supreme court :)

18:27

the no term limits

18:27

I think it should be just sane reasoning

18:27

if a worshipful has no time to be worshipful then he/she will step down

18:28

give space for someone who has time and energy to dedicate

One didn't tough. Then he got mad to see his power being stripped away and he staged a coup

well but because we are the way we are

18:28

we still stand

18:29

the coup didn't work

https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/jvokex/spawnmasons_rise_again_smib/ Sure looks like it did

18:29

lol

if we find a worshipful should not hold the worshipful rank, we speak to that one one at a meeting

18:29

that was a fun meme

18:29

for 2 or 3 days

18:30

you know they have a public discord

18:30

that they branded highland

18:30

lotus and fluffbucket in there

mfw

18:30

rank grand loti

18:30

don't take these things seriously

18:30

i don't think herm wants to harm us, unless he is a very good actor (edited)

18:30

he might be a bit disgruntled perhaps

18:30

but he has other things to do

18:30

being herm

“Your brand is what other people say about you when you're not in the room,”

abolish all worshipfuls

thistbh

1

can i start with woofo

jk we need to pack the court

18:48

we have the legislation to do it

18:48

but the question is will we

yes

18:49

pack the court

Expand the council

not woofo

18:58

he is supposed to be there

18:58

we planned this

wooooo

i was in the call when the guardsmen temp rebrand happened and can verify it was a meme

Bromger Boomerang

https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/jvokex/spawnmasons_rise_again_smib/ Sure looks like it did

.

thanks for switching the topic but we were talking about the supreme court

lol

yeah! sit down new blood

20:10

>>

20:10

4

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

@Brother Entropy he understands us

ßrother LordNo.

I agree, but what if participation is not a choice? What if you are super busy and haven't gotten to know the person but still want to show that you are here and paying attention to the politics enough to know there is a vote but recognize you havent put enough work into being able to make an educated vote?

Abstain is for exactly this. You are aware of the vote but do not have an opinion so you trust your fellow brothers to make the decision for you. If you have any doubts @Brother Fruit you vote no as always.

20:49

It is just to show you have not ignored the vote but cant make an informed decision so have faith in fellow brothers

i guess i just don't really see the point of making it a react versus just saying "sorry wasn't able to get to know this initiate" in the chat

The point is some people dont say that or are in different time zones so cant do it

20:51

without abstain if people just dont vote it just looks like they ignore it altogether

20:53

If anyone has doubts about an initiate I want them to vote no! Without abstain I would vote no on all American initiates I dont have a chance to get to know. Abstain means you dont have enough info to make an informed decision so are trusting your vote to the rest of the group

20:54

If you dont feel confident in trusting you vote to the rest of the group vote no

i suppose my thinking on that is that if you vote abstain it means you weren't able to meet the initiate, and i don't see what "activity" difference lies between "never spoke to the initiate" and "ignored the vote"

20:55

what's the difference between someone who never votes and someone who always abstains

We usually ask at meeting the week before someone is meant to be voted on "have people had a chance to get to know this person" if enough people say yes the vote is held next week. If lots say no it is postponed a week and repeat. In that weeks time you should make the effort to get to know them, if you cant do it still you then vote abstain unless you have reason to vote the other 2 answers. Abstain is a common practice in voting.

abstain good

bluepill

1

I might suggest that if there is a controversy on too many abstains we may wish to reassess the criteria for active brothers and applicant committee. Having to abstain this time due to not getting to know the candidate irked me as well so I'm going to try to do better. I noticed I wasn't the only one to sit out this round however.

Accurate^

03:26

If you have to abstain multiple candidates in a row you maybe should not be in applicant committee (talking about myself)

Chipoff would be a very good guest :3

yes

^

03:05

he's a good dude

03:06

funny thing is he only really knows some of us bc i leaked coords on accident

first i knew of him he attended my rusher lodge on the archive

dude i LOVE chipoff

i first met him on the wiki about 8ish months ago, he was arguing against some of our policies, but he won a lot of respect from me, stayed incredibly respectful, so much so that he has been a valued staff member on the wiki for the last few months. He's also staff on the signed books and collectibles discord, and I liked his performance on the wiki so much that i put him as staff in the discord archive. He does a lot of stuff on the Archive itself as well.

04:26

tldr, good guy, does a lot in the community, perfect fit for here (edited)

^ chipoff

yes

Chipoff restores bases I approv

I love Chipoff, you love Chipoff, everyone loves Chipoff!!! smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

chopoff good

19:03

i mean chipoff

Chipoff tulpa

I killed him

you've killed me too

And i will do it again

catflushed_help

2

i know

funny tnt minecarts

:) I didn't find it fun at the time

19:39

now I do

I know you didn't lul

19:40

but it was accident

ye

19:40

ofc it was

19:40

...

someone knocked them over i blame that guy

19:40

;p

ye who was that, we were 3 at the carts

mike or ufo

19:42

I think

yes

YES PLEASE

I have never even heard of him (edited)

He is in the archive, wiki, discord archive.

21:46

generally wherever people are doing helpful useful things for the community he is helping

i LOVE chipoff

@ everyone

21:58

look! even the godless heartless communist likes chipoff!!

Chipotle is so awesome

08:35

Chopoff

08:35

I mean Chipoff

08:35

100% mason mat I would say

brother terbin

Chipotle is so awesome

so true

lmao

I'd like to put @Brother leijurv on trial

Image attachment

1

on trial

doctored screenshot

lolle

23:57

wrong channel tho lamp

How

bruh come on now

Image attachment

it has been almost 2 months for clav

tbh it made me want to vote no

04:07

self fulfilling prophecy

^ this basically

Yeah it was an unnecessary comment

Let’s keep in mind it’s the holidays and these can be challenging emotional times

yes

3

04:47

Please

Brother Fruit

bruh come on now

I don't like

same

very pessimistic mindset

13:23

pretty unpogchamp

not very funny or cool

I laughed

13:43

at his crying

he never even responded to my dm

has anyone talked to him about this?

14:22

not that we need to

14:22

but

yes?

14:23

oh no

about his comment

I thought you meant about before

14:23

yea no

14:24

not yet

i'll talk to him about it then, since (i think) i'm one of the people here closer to him (edited)

clav puts in a lot of work and he fits our criteria but why does he come over so distant

14:26

this is more context if anyone is lost https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353428205723713536/787720094104944650

maybe he didn't even read it lmfao

pulling from my own experience: when i was a guest, as well as an initiate, i felt like there was this vague and special "thing" or set of things i had to do or prove in order for me to get accepted in. it was frustrating, unclear, and perplexing to me and honestly felt stupid. Boom and Terbin, among others, notably, pushed me along (thankfully), but the one thing i distinctly remember Boom (and maybe Terbin) saying, was: "talk more", which, to me - a mildly insecure and over-thinking person who doesn't like to talk in unfamiliar settings - left me going: "??? wtf ???". i eventually just gave up on trying to "prove" myself and just tried to act like i was a member of the group... which lead to me participating in a level of interaction - with a lot of people i didn't know all that well - that was waaay beyond what i was comfortable with. a lot of what i said in vcs and channels didn't stick with the convos at the time (i felt), which left me feeling hopeless... but eventually really surprised and confused when i, one day (out of nowhere), had a green name.

14:48

i'm defending what he said - i don't like it at all - but i'm trying to defend the position he's in (edited)

yea I think that's a fair pov I felt similar when I joined goo

14:49

too

14:49

and that was a long time ago

on top of that, he is active duty (on medical leave) with a few tours under his belt, as well as being in his mid 30s (edited)

14:53

a combination that can mean a lot of pessimism regarding social interactions. i've heard a few vets mention how different the social environments are in and outside of the military and that it isn't an easy transition usually.

14:53

all that to say, i'll talk to him, and that that this might not be as pouty as it seems. (edited)

good things to consider^

understandable - that's why I wrote DarkXL this when he joined the discord. Since I knew him before. Perhaps someone can do something similar to clav, so it's not so vague what he has to do

15:27

Embedded image

15:27

Image attachment

15:28

help a future brother out

minecraftheart

3

ufo did the same for me

Image attachment

15:47

so if his friends think he is a good fit for the masons, I expect his friends to help him get in

i think ufo and terbin and maybe scribble did this for me too

who invited clav?

15:49

or asked for him to join?

i think lordno or warlord?

15:59

Image attachment

15:59

ive been there lmfao

several have, many then lost interest, some stayed

16:00

lordno warlord, could you contact clav? I think he didn't answer ufo's message? (might be wrong) just ask him to mingle, get to know people

16:01

but you DMed P529 right ufo? I feel it's a bit different reaching out to a brother than to write like that in general. (edited)

yea

but that might be because he doesn't know how to reach out

he didnt respond to mine

ye so I think our best bet is to have the people who know him best reaching out to him

16:02

Find it very strange though that he didn't answer you

same

sometimes people type out answers to dms and dont send them

yes

16:11

by accident you mean?

i prefer

but that's why we are just saying it's strange - and that it would be cool if lordo/warlord would reach out

people that type

16:12

like this

16:12

:))

ufo must love me

i do

16:12

cause i know you are writing what you are thinking:)

it's bad

Image attachment

as you type

I am

Image attachment

16:12

i do it too just less

16:12

lmfao

brothers

brother

anyway as last time we spoke about clav - I feel we are looking for solutions, not trying to block his entry. That's why, again, it would be cool if the people who would like to invite him @ßrother LordNo. @WarLordN1k ? would speak with him

16:19

Porkchop for at least honorary mason

porkchop for spawn mason

he does not meet the requirements yes

porkchop for sm

but

16:19

still

what requirements

he does meet most of them

being in VC

he is active on 2b

16:20

oh

being in VC

16:20

is very important

16:20

but

16:20

we have bent the rules so many times

yea true :/

porkman has proven himself on 2b (edited)

16:20

many times over

16:20

100k wdl project

16:20

I have a base by him on the archive :)

why doesnt he go in vcs?

many old masons don't either

16:20

no clue tho

16:20

and I can't count the amount of times he has helped me on the archive

16:20

hours many hours

16:21

I think anyone involved in the 100k project can say he was invaluable

16:21

he's trustworthy

16:21

stable

he said he would never play with us or come to lodges

16:21

he doesnt talk in vc

16:21

i dont even consider

ye and I get that

16:21

he doesn't fit the requirements

16:21

but

16:21

leijurv said similar things before

16:22

up to the group, but I think strongly he should be SM

Brother Entropy

he said he would never play with us or come to lodges

that kinda sounds like he doesnt want to be a spawn mason? :0 :/

he's different from others in so many ways

16:22

he doesn't mind

16:22

if he is one or not

16:22

and I think that's cool

i dont need people that wont come do stuff with us

you are not the group though

16:22

and

16:22

if we have future projects that require coding

16:22

he would be an invaluable asset

16:23

such as the spawn logo

he was initiate

16:23

already

16:23

hello

Entropy I know you are just doing the "i follow the rules"

16:23

but

16:23

that's not really what we are known for

He should still be a brother

ye

But maybe not get the mason rank

ye

idc how herm kept not following them

16:24

that doesnt justify

ye all valid points

16:24

but it could still be voted on

Brother Entropy

i dont even consider

you aren't everyone

im one vote

16:36

just saying that anyone in this situation i would vote no on

16:38

also this is not a leijurv case

16:38

pork was initiate for a month and he still didnt talk or come to lodges (edited)

porkchop was initiate?

2m ago

Brother Entropy

2m ago

why is there no vote on him?

because in the meeting i asked to take it as theres no point to even vote cause hes never here and everyone agreed

yea I shouldn't complain tbh if I don't come to meetings (which I haven't in a while)

I would not support porkchop for initiate, much as I do like the guy; entropyman is correct

the good old mason rule debate :)

17:32

but

17:32

since he doesn't care whether he is a mason or not and it would only stir up shit

17:32

not really a point making him a mason or even voting I guess

Very true, why is this a discussion

because he should be

17:32

in my opinion, in lamps opinion

17:32

and perhaps in ufos

17:35

but it should not cause strife or discord

Is there an initiate chat? Would be funny to have an initiate chat that no one can read except the initiates. They could write in there whatever they want, but once they are initiated they can't any more. I wonder what kind of messages would build up there. (edited)

only 1 message per initiate

No no. As many as they want. It can be for casual conversations, or for deep personal monologues of those guys that are by themselves. They can use it like a daily diary... Whatever they want. (edited)

>has contributed countless hours in the name of masons and 2b in general entropymen: nope they don't talk in vc

I can understand why entropy does it - in the past a lot of conflicts have been fought over not following the rules

18:24

but

18:24

I agree with Boomerang's statement here 100% https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/570364331548475392/792812103806615562

I think there is a difference between following the rules one initiated but the rules to get in have never been set in stone and never will be

18:25

imo

Image attachment

18:26

does he want to be a mason?

I want him to be

I think the fact that he doesn't mind too much whether he is or not is a reason more to invite him, given his track record

18:26

and what ufo said

agreed

https://2b2t.miraheze.org/wiki/DaPorkchop

so its kidnapping for our own posterity?

18:29

looking up posterity

18:29

kidnapping sounds about right :)

posterity I've used incorrectly

18:30

ostentatiousness (edited)

18:32

either way I am not against it, just trying to understand it

no it's because we all 3 genuinely feel daporkchop is very valuable to the group

18:39

lamp is not easily persuaded to like or trust someone, he says he wants someone in and keeps pushing for it, it means something. (edited)

18:39

to me anyway

18:40

separately from my own motivation, I wrote about before

18:40

but it's again the question - what do we want this group to be

18:41

people who play with us and join in game? People's motivations are so different. Jordan likes to invite people he has fun with in other games for example, people he likes to hang out with. Lamp's I feel are more of a what can that person do and so many other views (edited)

18:41

that's why the masons are so different from the others

i feel daporkchop is kind of an exception to the activity rule because his contributions are so great

rulemasons

19:00

votemasons (edited)

redpill

ShortbusMasons

If porkchop wanted to be a mason, he would already be one (edited)

19:31

I just dont think he wants too that badly lol

kidnapping for ostentatiousness

thats what we've historically done here

19:33

herm was notorious for getting people in the group just because they were "big names"

19:33

and to this day probably still wants fit in the group

19:33

(if he was still here (praise be unto him (smib)))

Mashallah

agree Todarac on everything you say

19:39

have confronted herm on also in here and said I don't like that

19:39

don't feel daporkchop is a big name

19:39

not about the name at all

He was big in 2017 lol, I remember seeing his posts all the time

well herm is gone

19:41

irrelevant to this discussion

ßrother LordNo.

kidnapping for ostentatiousness

was replying to this

19:42

big herm energy

19:42

"get this guy in because his name is recognizeable!!"

19:43

I think we've transcended that mindset, because instead of getting """big players""" in here, we invite anyone with talent, and then they end up becoming big players with the stuff we do in here

And as I said before, I’m not against it. But being clear about motive can help people understand. If the goal is getting big names in here, their projected activity levels are irrelevant. So it helps keep the discussion on point and away from irrelevant tangents (edited)

man

19:45

I just want cool people to talk to in vc and also people who are good at building

19:45

thats my honest criteria

friendship and building are major spokes in the wheel of masonitude

19:48

as are technical aptitude and creativity

We want pork in here because he already is a big part of the masons, he is "unkickable guest" why not just make him a brother as well, he wants to help with the creative, he is called honorary mason because he does a lot for the masons, everything except talk

in my limited time here I never saw Casparov really say anything until the coding challenge recently. He, Leijurv, Babba, Ox, and others talked everyday. Perhaps the creative endeavours of development are a language some masons prefer to communicate in. And in that respect, porkchop may offer interactions with people like Lamp and Terbin that no one else here can offer. That is valuable as well

19:53

I am now 100% onboard with bringing him in, because he can fulfil a want/need of the technical masons that many of us cannot, and what is community if not a group of people working together to fulfil each others wants and needs

greensmib

1

this

he still has to come to his initiation and say the speech

can he even do that

i think so

well we got me todarac lamp Henry lord no and terbin (edited)

20:18

vs one measly entropy

I mean even if hes in here, hes PROBABLY going to be as active in vc and text as he currently is

20:20

aka

20:20

not at all

20:20

you guys just want to give him the honorary blue name for some reason

20:20

I think thats where entropy is coming from

shut up

okay

popbob

20:21

we just bring it up till it happens

20:21

now

can we argue about the Abstain in voice for 30 minutes

abstain_neutral

3

yes

20:22

we should delete abstain

20:22

useless

jordan is shaking and crying right now

he already is a big part and will be an even bigger part when he hosts the creative server, why not just make him blue

Brother Entropy

i dont need people that wont come do stuff with us

Bromger Boomerang

No no. As many as they want. It can be for casual conversations, or for deep personal monologues of those guys that are by themselves. They can use it like a daily diary... Whatever they want. (edited)

initiate pergatory. this is what they get for all that time spent not in the Masons

Brother Pint

it's a horrible cope. guaranteed he would do stuff with us in game

abstain_neutral

is a monster that never should've existed

are we discussing one's brother potential?

(edited)

we're not kidnapping porkchop

brother potential

brother noname

it's a horrible cope. guaranteed he would do stuff with us in game

i was gonna say something along the lines of "this is how coups begin", but settled with the eyes

game theory: lamp has some crazy ulterior motive for getting porkchop in here and its all part of his master plan

something something....he's already mason, what damage could his bot do if we gave it full rights on the discord server...

Brother Pint

i was gonna say something along the lines of "this is how coups begin", but settled with the eyes

lmfaooo

hes not a mason tho

it's a joke

o

porkchop has yuge 2017 clout, but yea I'm surprised he isn't that active

i havent seen him in text or voice ever

i'm for porkchop getting in. would like for him to particiapte socially somewhat, tho. maybe at the least given him some new role that designates his honorary position in the Masons

Brother Todarac

can we argue about the Abstain in voice for 30 minutes

i probably should not have done that grimacing_cat

grimacing_cat

20:43

oh my god grimacing cat

Holy shit

i love elon

20:43

these emojis are great

My anti abstain brothers

i do fully agree, tho, that socializing is an essential aspect of our brotherhood (edited)

I wish i could’ve been at the meeting to argue about it ;_;

maybe he shouldn't get the spawnmason rank but get initiated and have the brother ranks - he's more than a guest at least that's for sure

we should abstain from arguing

thistbh

1

pork has been with the masons very long

but whats he done?

scroll up

abstain lodge incoming

just give him the brother rank and nothing else? catflushed_italics

catflushed_italics

Brother Todarac

abstain lodge incoming

holy lol

Brother Toilet (breithan)

but whats he done?

actually don't scroll up bc there isn't really anything there. catflushed_8bit

catflushed_8bit

a lot on the sidelines maybe not much in game but he was big help with 100k project and he continues to be a very helpful and smart guy, it makes sense to me to make him a brother if he is going to be hosting the creative server, i think most people already trust him too

apologies brothers: i was scheduled to create the lodge this week but i couldn’t think of anything so i have abstained

mdma

2

added to the excuse list

20:49

and also the execute list

Brother Fruit

I wish i could’ve been at the meeting to argue about it ;_;

you could simply do that by coming to meetings

lmao what

20:53

I wasn’t able to come

20:53

As i just said

u never come

I’m usually busy

excuses above me

thistbh

3

brother noname

you could simply do that by coming to meetings

destroyed

If there is so much talk about bending the rules, perhaps changing them is a better option. This is also essentially a nonissue aa porkchop is barely around. He's a cool guy, a smart one too; he's also not around. I cannot, and will not vote for the initiation of an AFKMason. He's not consistantly active, perhaps that's alright for individuals who are already members, but imo it should not be for someone we are considering for membership. Should he become active consistently, I would be very happy to have him as a bro. Until that day comes, however, I cannot vote in favor of his membership.

there are no rules on what we require lol

23:22

idk why it was brought up in the first place

^

23:22

Literally nonissue

there is only group expectation and votes

The only right is popular opinion mdma

mdma

the only right is what we decide with a vote

abstain_neutral

1

23:27

@Brother Fruit do you agree

slurp on my node

ahhh yea lets change the rules we dont have chefs kiss

23:30

>does stuff for masons, is called an afkmason

here are the epic guidelines

big sad

Our requirements are quite loose but what we look for are people that
-have done and still do exceptional things on 2b (this could be highly technical, organisational, aesthetic, ...)
-are actively playing and are likely to keep playing in the long run
-want to join us for meetings at spawn (Saturday 22 GMT) and build with us until the heat death of the universe
-want to learn to know our group and talk in voice
In the end we are a brotherhood, a group of friends, so in order to join you need to become a friend.

23:30

mdma

rules are meant to be broken

soooo true

sent Clav that message (finally) (edited)

what'd he say

nothing yet

ßrother LordNo.

in my limited time here I never saw Casparov really say anything until the coding challenge recently. He, Leijurv, Babba, Ox, and others talked everyday. Perhaps the creative endeavours of development are a language some masons prefer to communicate in. And in that respect, porkchop may offer interactions with people like Lamp and Terbin that no one else here can offer. That is valuable as well

I shared this with casparov - here's what he said

Image attachment

1

10:01

ah nice Casparov can see this now. awesome

10:05

not trying to push for it, just trying to show that value can be provided by other things than in game activity and we are a very diverse group.

When it comes to it in general, people have criteria about the people they enjoy being around. Whether you want to admit that or not is all your choice, but when it comes to anything in life you gotta make some informed decision, especially when making a friend. I think entropy is right, not because it is a thing we've done before (iirc the "must be in vc" and "must do things" wasn't a rule we followed to the T) but because it helps people decide whether or not to continue interacting with someone. Thats how communities work irl too. (edited)

10:19

juuust for some clarification that was in reference to this: https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/792789523116589079

Brother Casparov

When it comes to it in general, people have criteria about the people they enjoy being around. Whether you want to admit that or not is all your choice, but when it comes to anything in life you gotta make some informed decision, especially when making a friend. I think entropy is right, not because it is a thing we've done before (iirc the "must be in vc" and "must do things" wasn't a rule we followed to the T) but because it helps people decide whether or not to continue interacting with someone. Thats how communities work irl too. (edited)

thus, if he isn't active with us in discord or in game, it would be best if we did not give him initiate (edited)

1

what do u guys think about rain getting initiate?

abstain_neutral

1

idk I think she’s a nice person and a good artist but she’s also quite new and has done some unintelligent things like sharing ratted clients. I like her but I don’t think I would support giving her initiate yet

thistbh

4

22:00

I do support mango for initiate tho

yeshello

1

true

22:00

i feel that

She's too new I think

22:08

Lacks experience

not yet. idk much about her, but she's pretty cool from my few interactions with her

23:23

she seems just a tad too naive atm.

23:25

i never got a message back from Clav btw - even tho he responded to something else i said to him afterwords

23:28

doesn't mean he doesn't listen or care entirely... i do the same thing a lot - irl, tho. he might just be taking it in and attempting an "action instead of words" approach

23:28

fingers crossed

23:29

i'd give him till keep initiate till the 15th at the latest if possible

Clav is cool. But at this point now with people msging him and it being so long since he got initiate, he probably feels like he has to perform or something to get in or that some people dont like him.

1Charlie3

repub

Brother Toilet (breithan)

Clav is cool. But at this point now with people msging him and it being so long since he got initiate, he probably feels like he has to perform or something to get in or that some people dont like him.

it might just be best to completely leave him alone at this point and see what he does with what has been said to him

hopefully no more disparaging remarks (edited)

^

Or we can just vote on him and see how it goes

Honestly I somewhat like Clav but I don't think he's Mason material

06:27

Plus I really didn't like his self irony I saw a few days ago

06:29

I mean when I got initiate I was hyped as fuck man lmao

Really makes me dislike that he doesn’t Answer pint or Ufo

09:07

Clav is a clear no for me

09:07

As much as I like him, don’t feel he fits

09:09

This is just too weird

what the consensus on Raaanch in terms of his initiation?

hes yellow

initiation

01:58

I meant blue

he will be yellow for weeks to come

right

01:58

whats the process

longer than 5 days

idk if its changed or not lol

01:58

ah okay

raaanch good

raaanch good

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Raaanch good

raaanch good

Raaanch GREAT

Yes

we could do this https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/793621671789330492 but clavs been initiate for 2 months now and if people know theyre gonna vote no regardless we should better vote

still a no from me

Image attachment

13:09

if he doesnt pass i hope hell stick around and get closer to people because then hell have much better chances

i thought he got kicked from emperium not drifted away

17:47

because he was friends with sikpops

yep he got kicked for being frineds with sikpops

yeah lmfao i vividly remember that

Eh, being kicked from emp is a selling point to me

plusone

1

@Brother Todarac is very bias, votes no on charlie because he "dose not like it when people leave and rejoin quickly" charlie was gone for like 4+ months, nick is gone for 2 weeks and he votes yes! just saying

I knew this was coming lol

18:08

im not a fan of people leaving but atleast he announced it and explained privately it was for mental health reasons

charlie did, for school

Brother Todarac

im not a fan of people leaving but atleast he announced it and explained privately it was for mental health reasons

ironic

iirc, most of us didn't know anything until a little while afterwords.

ok so i guess maybe i should type something up about me leaving

So I left the masons because of a combination of what had happened over the past few months and me wanting to step away for school. It's pretty hard for me to regulate time on something like 2b because it can be a bit of an addiction. I didn't leave the masons on a whim, I just started with the masons. I left all other discords a week or two later so I can understand why it may come off that I left the masons for no reason but that really wasn't the case. The first day when everyone was messaging me why I left, I maybe didn't give a thorough explanation because I hadn't fully decided wether I would leave all discords or stay in some. But I did tell people afterwards why I really left and from what I've seen they have relayed that to the group. I didn't want to announce to the entire group why I'm leaving because it isn't necessary and I didn't want to go into full explanation. I'm not gonna respond to old messages from before I was back in because I don't feel like it, but to this https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/794628053883027486 I definitely did respond privately, to multiple people in fact, just maybe not to you. I don't think it is realistic for someone who is trying to quit to tell every single person privately why I am.

^^^^^

20:12

go off king

20:12

I think it is completely unrealistic to expect people to prioritize a video game group over their own life

20:13

If someone needs to leave to recalibrate their 24 inch gauge (lol) i don’t see a problem with that

20:13

It makes no sense to hold that against someone

20:13

We all have different ways of dealing with stress etc

thistbh

5

20:13

We should respect that about our fellow brothers

redpill

5

Brother Oppenheimer

@Brother Todarac is very bias, votes no on charlie because he "dose not like it when people leave and rejoin quickly" charlie was gone for like 4+ months, nick is gone for 2 weeks and he votes yes! just saying

extremely based

1Charlie3

So I left the masons because of a combination of what had happened over the past few months and me wanting to step away for school. It's pretty hard for me to regulate time on something like 2b because it can be a bit of an addiction. I didn't leave the masons on a whim, I just started with the masons. I left all other discords a week or two later so I can understand why it may come off that I left the masons for no reason but that really wasn't the case. The first day when everyone was messaging me why I left, I maybe didn't give a thorough explanation because I hadn't fully decided wether I would leave all discords or stay in some. But I did tell people afterwards why I really left and from what I've seen they have relayed that to the group. I didn't want to announce to the entire group why I'm leaving because it isn't necessary and I didn't want to go into full explanation. I'm not gonna respond to old messages from before I was back in because I don't feel like it, but to this https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/794628053883027486 I definitely did respond privately, to multiple people in fact, just maybe not to you. I don't think it is realistic for someone who is trying to quit to tell every single person privately why I am.

i hope we've made it clear that we are not hung up on you leaving all those months ago: just whether or not leaving like that is acceptable at all.

20:57

which, i think, we're all starting to come to the same consensus on.

Yeah I agree with everything thats been said. Especially henry. I just have my own (admittedly subjective) views on """the correct way to leave""" that people disagree with. Which is fine.

20:59

And the reason I hold those views is because I personally view the masons in high regard, as some honorable and respectable group to be a part of (lol larp)

greensmib

1

imo clav hasnt rly made much of an effort to get to meet ppl

01:02

i dont have anything against the guy

01:02

but i feel like hes not all that invested

Yes this

i havent talked to him once since he joined

01:03

and ive been in vc quiet a bit

hes invested in game, like really put the effort in he built a lodge, built at every base we have going and helped party com a lot but not invested enough socially i guess

ive been in voice with him a couple times

This vote is disappointing. He is a good builder, hard worker, somewhat social, in vc sometimes.

yh imma vote abstain and trust the ppl that actually know him

But, the whole point of voting and democracy is that what’s better for the whole is what happens. So if that many people feel it is better for the masons as a whole that clav doesn’t join, then I’m glad we have a system in place that allows that to happen. Even if I feel a little disappointing because of it.

but i feel like hes not rly made an effort to get to get to know ppl

Lastly, there are lots of brothers who didn’t make their first votes as well. So it’s not like we are going to ban him if he fails his vote

yep

Gebrüder Zippie

but i feel like hes not rly made an effort to get to get to know ppl

This does seem to be general consensus

yh

God i feel conflicted on this

thistbh

3

I wouldn’t worry :). This isn’t the end of the road unless he quits because he doesn’t get in

And if he does that we dodged a bullet anyway

i feel like a lot of people voted based on that one comment. "im not expecting to get in" one comment he might just had a bad night and it had been 2 months since he got initiate. hes been very active in game and has been in voice at least a few times. its not like i was in voice any more than him when i was initiate.

yeah, he's exceptionally active in-game

01:54

but i'm a little off-put by his reluctance to respond to dms, and the self-defeating remark in chat - tho that could've just been an insensitive joke (edited)

01:57

i'd vote yes, simple bc i don't believe one has to be incredibly active socially to be apart of the group

02:02

and i'm referencing people like Babba, Wailn, Nordic etc...: people who are in here, talk from time to time, but attribute something to the group on their own way

Brother Pint

i'd vote yes, simple bc i don't believe one has to be incredibly active socially to be apart of the group

i agree with this but i don’t think it totally applies to this situation. what you described above isn’t simply “social inactivity” — i find it very worrisome that Clav has repeatedly expressed concern/dissatisfaction about his time as an initiate but has ignored multiple attempts to reach out & discuss that w/ him

02:24

To me it seems a bit childish and reminds me of McNeo, to be brutally honest

1

02:25

I’m conflicted because he seems cool otherwise but this is a bit too big of a red flag for me to vote yes right now

I really hate abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

abstain frustrates me

I want to vote yes — but I don’t think I can ignore my gut feeling on this

I feel you

02:34

He is a cool dud, just a shame he put up a lot of red flags

^

abstain_neutral

3

02:35

i feel bad voting no, and i am not okay with voting yes

abstain_neutral

3

02:35

AbstainMasons

abstain_neutral

3

psssh just grow a pair and vote the way you feel

abstain_neutral

3

thistbh

1

I am voting the way i feel :3

abstain_neutral

3

yes if you have info and fellings on it then abstain is not for oyu

abstain_neutral

3

Abstain isn’t a real feeling!

abstain_neutral

3

Brother Todarac

psssh just grow a pair and vote the way you feel

so fucking true!!!

abstain_neutral

3

Real feelings are feelings like yes, and no

abstain_neutral

3

well i'm not changing my vote u_u

abstain_neutral

3

god the redpills are lethal tonight

abstain_neutral

3

Abstain isn’t a real feeling can I get this on a shirt please

abstain_neutral

3

thistbh

1

lol

abstain_neutral

3

joey spamming

abstain_neutral

3

02:38

mods mods mods mods mods

abstain_neutral

3

MODS HELP AAAAAAAAAA

abstain_neutral

3

Ok I vouch to remove abstain

yes

4

3

abstain_neutral

3

Sooo true

abstain_neutral

3

fuck abstain

abstain_neutral

3

redpill

1

why did ufo abstain his own anti abstain post

abstain_neutral

3

02:40

we need a task force to look into this

abstain_neutral

3

02:40

Mods actually need to shut this down and by mods i mean entropy

abstain_neutral

3

ABSTAIN

abstain_neutral

3

@Brother Entropy mods mods mods mods mods

abstain_neutral

3

02:41

i need a janny immediately

abstain_neutral

3

@⋅

abstain_neutral

3

he shleep

abstain_neutral

3

give me ultra worshipful back @Brother Entropy

abstain_neutral

3

dumpstered

abstain_neutral

3

Calculated

abstain_neutral

3

ßrother LordNo.

Abstain isn’t a real feeling!

it's called apathy, and facts don't care about your feelings

clav vote is 666 rn

cursed

time for a new degree unironically

degree of the month

03:21

and delete the spawnmasons when we get to 33

I’m calling for a total and complete shutdown of ~~Muslims entering~~ abstain voting in the ~~United States~~ SpawnMasons until our ~~country's representatives~~ Worshipfuls can figure out what is going on. (edited)

Henry quoting trump to further his own anti-democratic agenda. 2020 changed us all.

getting rid of non-votes is anti democratic?

Categorizing abstain as a non-vote! Who even are you anymore man?

04:16

for the record this is all a meme

Henry you have made me (and my cat, tulpa, cat's tulpa, and my tulpa's cat) cry with your RAILING against Abstain VOTES

04:22

This is so sad

If only you guys could see how hard henry popped off against abstain votes in my DMs

04:23

the man is full of HATE and VITRIOL against abstain

abstain as virtue signaling that you aren't slacking off, you are actually making a deliberate choice to not vote: i sleep angel_cat

angel_cat

sleep_cat

yawning_cat

trying to make abstain have any meaning or effect of any kind: real shit rage_cat

rage_cat

(edited)

i don't really know what you're trying to communicate here

i saw that

Image attachment

Brother Pint

i saw that

wrong image

Brother Fruit

i don't really know what you're trying to communicate here

neither lel

we should treat abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

as 3/5 a vote (edited)

in all seriousness tho, we should deliberately and intentionally look into other voting systems (edited)

05:15

and dedicate a lodge or meeting to hashing this issue out

Brother Fruit

i don't really know what you're trying to communicate here

this is what happens when you dont come to meetings sunglasses_cat

sunglasses_cat

05:16

you missed a great argument (on exactly that topic)

i've been speaking with todarac for hours about abstain

05:18

i just need you to actually use words instead of some banal format

zany_cat

1

Brother Fruit

i've been speaking with todarac for hours about abstain

ok?

Brother Pint

and dedicate a lodge or meeting to hashing this issue out

that way, we don't go on rabbit trails and derail however many lodges over the next few weeks/months

Brother leijurv

ok?

so i understand

05:19

the concept

05:19

but i can't decipher what your actual opinion is

half the abstainers into both yes and no

05:21

makes for more accurate voting

Brother Fruit

but i can't decipher what your actual opinion is

pretty sure he's against abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

.

okay but the definition of "abstain" is not "0.5 yes and 0.5 no"

05:22

anyone who votes abstain should just be removed

05:22

and then only the yes and no's are counted

yes but most people who vote abstain use it as a scapegoat for the fact they are 0.5 yes and 0.5 no

the "definition" of any emote is how we decide to interpret it in the rules, any other arguments about what it "should" mean are irrelevant

a scapegoat for what?

its a "can't decide"

not voting

scapegoat wasn't the right word

if you cant decide on who should be in the spawnmasons, it should be a no

I disagree, because of the fact that people want to have an informed opinion

05:23

I did the math, halving the abstainers into yes and no evens out and makes voting much more accurate

leijurv im not talking about the definition of emojis, its the definiton of the word as described by the dictionary

05:23

abstain means "I dont want to take part in voting"

zany_cat

zany_cat

zany_cat

zany_cat

zany_cat

If you dont want to take part in the vote, then your vote shouldnt matter

Brother Todarac

abstain means "I dont want to take part in voting"

so true

Brother Todarac

If you dont want to take part in the vote, then your vote shouldnt matter

so true

05:24

unironic btw

epic

that's what im saying

05:24

i've been saying this

then why vote at all?

im channeling my inner henry because hes been raging at me all night about this

05:24

EXACTLY CASPAROV

what exactly is the point?

EXACTLY

05:24

why vote?

EXACTLY

remove abstain then lol

holy shit

iirc in the meeting it was JUST jordan who disagreed with this (*and said so out loud), but he was loud enough to make it not happen (edited)

one of us

i was on the fence about it

05:25

still kinda am

I'm gonna try and come to the meeting next weekend

I kind of like the "I agree with my fellow brothers" argument, but thats technically not what abstain means

do we have a rule on the amount of people that have to vote?

Rulemasons LUL

80% yes

Brother Fruit

I'm gonna try and come to the meeting next weekend

lul

no

05:25

I mean, if only 2 people voted

Brother Todarac

80% yes

lmao......

would that still count?

that's not what he asked

oh

thats part of my problem

Brother Casparov

would that still count?

TERBIN WORSHIPFUL VOTE PTSD VIETNAM FLASHBACKS

Image attachment

henry this was the "minor bullet point that turned into a 30 minute argument" slide

this didnt pass because jordan alone was super strongly against it lol

that is the most VoteMasons thing I have ever fucking seen

please correct me if i'm misremembering ^

It's actually repulsive

Brother Fruit

that is the most VoteMasons thing I have ever fucking seen

i strongly enjoyed the larpiness of making the slide angel_cat

angel_cat

05:27

i'd love to do something similar again

Autism has infected the masons

angel_cat

We have got to do something about this

(I like it)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autcraft

Autcraft is a Minecraft server dedicated to be a safe haven for children with autism.

05:27

need

05:27

a

05:27

new

05:27

division

05:27

o

05:27

n

05:27

here

mason logo on Autcraft?

LMAO

guys

Brother leijurv

Click to see attachment 🖼️

fuck compromise

LET'S VOTE ON GETTING RID OF ABSTAIN

Brother Pint

LET'S VOTE ON GETTING RID OF ABSTAIN

that would be so fucking poggers

If rathause's abstain votes were split:
17.5 yes, 4.5 no
17.5/21 = 83%... Much more accurate than if only 5 people voted and 4 of them chose yes which is currently how our system works

no pint, you need to wait for a lodge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

05:28

i'm all for it

Brother Pint

LET'S VOTE ON GETTING RID OF ABSTAIN

everyone abstains on it

waiting for a lodge is fair fuk u

even tho i like abstain

i am literally so horny for SpontaneityMasons

this is how you get people to rage and quit because they missed it tho

i like clear-cut decisions more

theres only like 5 people talking here

Brother Casparov

everyone abstains on it

inb4 complain "well if you didn't want it to pass you shouldn't have abstained"

Brother Todarac

theres only like 5 people talking here

exactly

smiling_imp_cat

Brother Todarac

this is how you get people to rage and quit because they missed it tho

smiling_imp_cat

what if you were the one missing out on it

05:29

and you disagreed with the outcome

i simply wouldn't

05:29

miss it

okay im convinced

LOL

05:29

this is based

people who miss are automatically split between the yes and nos

lol

literally a perfect system

casparov is the true centrist here holy fuck

casparov lethal shitposting

only being half sarcastic

hello fellow radical centrist

abstainers should be treated the same as those who dont vote

MOOOOOOOM WHY DID YOU PUT ME IN THE NO'S AND NOT THE YES'S ?!?!?!?!?!!

YES YES YES YES

Brother Casparov

abstainers should be treated the same as those who dont vote

SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"abstain" means, and hear me out, "I abstain from adding input to this vote"

leijurv was based when he said it was virtue signaling

then abstain is the WRONG terminology

05:31

it should be. "i don't know"

Brother Fruit

leijurv was based when he said it was virtue signaling

right exactly

I vote to change abstain emoji to "i dont know" emoji

yeah this should be the actual emote for "abstain"

Image attachment

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

there should legitimately be a "clock emoji" that just means "later", or really if you're redpilled you just vote no

jordan originally said something like 'abstain is for when you want to signal that you've seen the vote, but still don't want to vote', which i was okay with, but i fall off that train when it starts to count for quorum lmfao

https://i.imgur.com/VTOTzDm.png

Embedded image

redpill

1

Brother Todarac

there should legitimately be a "clock emoji" that just means "later", or really if you're redpilled you just vote no

so fucking true!!!!!!!!!!! just vote no.... (edited)

or split votes

casparov thats just what leijurv said he hates

okay so

05:33

imagine

05:33

it was super close

05:33

like a 7 yes 5 no

Brother leijurv

jordan originally said something like 'abstain is for when you want to signal that you've seen the vote, but still don't want to vote', which i was okay with, but i fall off that train when it starts to count for quorum lmfao

wdym count for quorum

and then ALL THE ABSTAINERS

the idea was "50% must vote for the vote to count"

suddenly go no

then the question was, does abstain count to 50%

no

05:33

because its a non vote

jordan said yes

05:33

PepeLaugh

mdma

you're suggesting that abstainers just vote no instead

yep

if they vote no, THEN ITS A NO

05:33

what is there to argue?

we need a bot that tallies votes

okay so imagine it was super close like a 7 yes 5 no and then ALL THE ONCE ABSTAINERS suddenly go no\

casparov we're suggesting people just make up their fucking mind

and if someone votes abstain 1 vote is added to the no column

no one would atually come into the spawnmasons

people who are universially considered "good" would make it in. This weeds out the weak ones

0.5% on each side doesn't actually hurt, it evens out and provides more accuracy

Why do you want weaker half members in here

Brother Casparov

no one would atually come into the spawnmasons

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Raaanch is going to make it in because he is universally liked

yeah

hes going to be a good addition

Brother Todarac

Why do you want weaker half members in here

yet again todarac FINALLY comes around to a point Ain and I were making OVER A YEAR AGO

what do you mean by weaker half members lmao

peepoRAGE

Embedded image

05:36

my reaction to henry right now

weaker half members

henry it was 2 years ago

what

Casparov, im talking about Clav if im being honest

okay

05:36

do the math

05:37

add half the abstains right now

05:37

of which i've abstained to give an example

05:37

to each side

05:37

then tally

05:37

it actually WORSENS THE VOTE

05:37

makes it way more accurate

05:37

instead of 54% its 52%

when we get rid of abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

, we should install a system where 50% of the app-comm needs to vote for the vote to be considered. once we have that, then a yes

yes

could pass if 80% of those who voted voted yes

yes

. if people don't like the outcome, and complain, we should remind them that they didn't vote when they had the chance.

off topic but i found this trying to find some based ain posts

Image attachment

05:38

tell me ain is not based

based ain posts

05:38

mdma

❓

05:38

not sure what's so funny

1) Casparov, abstain doesnt mean "split the vote in half", it means "I dont have any input for this vote" so they should just be discarded 2) Pint, we used to have an "Applicant Committee" where only ~10 people who actually cared were allowed in, it sounds like you would rather go back to that

no

05:39

it was called the applicant council

not precisely

fool

we have applicant council right now

05:39

it used to be committee

todarac

05:39

you are a fool

05:39

listen to me

05:39

i created the council

oh

05:39

the current channel name

1) Todarac, abstain isn't used that way, most people use it because they are 50/50 (on the fence) about a vote. then BECAUSE of that, they don't like to participate.

OOPSIE WOOPSIE

i'm sayin gwe just need half the applicant council to to do there fucking job (edited)

if they are on the fence, vote no

05:40

its that simple

so true!

voting no isnt a fucking death sentence

05:40

it isnt a ban

then the no votes get weighted

05:40

reee

it means "not now"

or not vote at all

can we get BLIND VOTING

05:40

PLEASE

how about all on the fence votes vote yes

LMAO

that would be pog wouldn't it?

but if 50% cast a vote, we'll consider the vote legit

MEDIOCREMASONS

thats how dumb that sounds

if people think yes, then let them vote yes! its also that simple casparov!

Brother Casparov

thats how dumb that sounds

????????

what is there even to argue

bruhhh

05:40

bruuuuuuhhhh

what are you TALKING about

if you are on the fence, you don't know what to vote

guys i have a solution

05:41

Image attachment

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

2

redpill

2

2

05:41

please refer to this image

casparov you sound insane right now. "If I vote one way, it will mean that one way"

If they aren't CONVINCED it should be YES, they should vote NO

05:41

TRY AGAIN PUSSY

05:41

LMFAOOOOOOO (edited)

i was so hoping you would say abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

leijurv

05:41

just for the memes

Brother leijurv

Click to see attachment 🖼️

PIN THIS NOW

no i mean

"I don't want to vote" "I'll go abstain because im not sure" gets their votes piled onto no "wow, all the people that voted yes are now really sad"

(edited)

leijurv, this is the most redpilled chart I have ever seen in my entire life, what the actual fuck (edited)

leijurv that is the most based image i have ever seen

wait i forgot some arrows

Brother Todarac

leijurv, this is the most redpilled chart I have ever seen in my entire life, what the actual fuck (edited)

i love it

wtf todarac and henry agreeing on mason politics?

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

first time in years

^ not a joke

saving this to my desktop for easy access

the 5 of us should just be the app council

Brother leijurv

Click to see attachment 🖼️

im actually okay with this

anything i should add?

Brother Casparov

im actually okay with this

LOL

just because its based

05:42

and funny

Image attachment

05:43

okay added the arrows i forgot

05:43

fuck i hat ethat space on the left

me when i get into an argument with todarac about mason politics

Image attachment

05:43

"go watch hot ones idiot"

fuckit i'm screenshotting

05:43

Image attachment

todarac when a new episode of Hot Ones™️ with Sean Evans drops

Image attachment

https://i.imgur.com/yKuaUc7.png

Embedded image

Brother leijurv pinned a message to this channel. 02/01/2021 05:43

I feel like I would have really love hated ain

do australian is gonna get in tho

Leijurv do you even know what you have done

im sad now

05:44

Australians have no chance

ßrother LordNo.

I feel like I would have really love hated ain

from:212619083429052416 put this into search bar LOL

ain was a fucking annoying asshole

Ain was too redpilled for you to handle

the effort they'd need to put in is literal sleep deprivation

You're just raging that he burnt your stupid fucking stone

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Lol

ßrother LordNo.

I feel like I would have really love hated ain

Image attachment

05:44

holy shit

Brother Todarac

Leijurv do you even know what you have done

?

oh I forgot to finish that thought

me and pint are crying in vc right now

05:45

please join

05:45

this is amazing

Do you even know what you have done with this chart? You've created another hour long argument where we keep going "LOOK AT THE CHART"

Image attachment

ain was an ain in the ass

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Image attachment

• delete the abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

emote • delete the

emote • you may only click yes

yes

, or click nothing at all • 70% of all current masons must click yes

yes

for someone to get in

9000000 iq

05:53

No cap

leijurv just sugggested we not only abolish abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

but also

05:53

based

better yet

i love it

wait i have a better one

05:54

never mind

05:54

yeah i can't top that power levels

you need to keep no

2

Brother Fruit

you need to keep no

cringe

This is not cringe

05:55

If you want NO to be solely communicated through TEXT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Forms#List_of_characters

Number Forms is a Unicode block containing characters that have specific meaning as numbers, but are constructed from other characters. They consist primarily of vulgar fractions and Roman numerals. In addition to the characters in the Number Forms block, three fractions were inherited from ISO-8859-1, which was incorporated whole as the Latin-...

why isn't YES also treated like that?

Image attachment

05:56

these are the votes

fuck you

¼

X

yes

= i'm willing to say that i want this person in

= i'm not willing to say that

05:57

i will make a discord bot that does anonymous voting

1

it would be nice for peope to not see the votes before they vote. if someone sees other pople voting no or yes they are more liekly to follow

this

thistbh

1

05:59

there is bias on knowing who has voted

05:59

which can also push the abstain vote

Brother Toilet (breithan)

it would be nice for peope to not see the votes before they vote. if someone sees other pople voting no or yes they are more liekly to follow

i have been saying this for so long........

06:03

!!!!!

ok well now we have the technology

leijurv

06:04

can i help pleading_cat

pleading_cat

you can pay for the hosting

wtf..........

06:04

i want to help write it......

if they choose cringe lang you probably can

So many abstainers - grow some balls

1

heart_eyes_cat_BOLD

3

thistbh

1

abstain_neutral

1

brother terbin

So many abstainers - grow some balls

SO based

brother terbin

So many abstainers - grow some balls

thug life terbin compilation when holy shit

God forbid someone would disagree with my vote and ask me about it... better play it safe to not cause any... questions

terbin goes mask off

Or what goes on in the mind ?

06:11

It’s 7 am and I had to relieve myself of some byproducts of my metabolism

06:11

However, I require additional rest

ABSTAIN

abstain_neutral

1

whyd you switch your vote from no to abstain

no balls

abstain_neutral

1

06:17

balls in a vice

my vote on this has been an abstain from the start

06:17

:3

WHY

abstain_neutral

2

yes i meant casp

ah

Image attachment

abstain_neutral

1

Brother Fruit

Click to see attachment 🖼️

bruh all this means nothing cause you don't come to meetings or participate in game

08:33

this is so sad

did you just cuck shed me

08:34

i didn't make that image

08:34

fool

lol ufo

08:35

I said something similar earlier

08:36

https://i.imgur.com/B8SwjPI.png

Embedded image

this x100000

Brother Fruit

i didn't make that image

I'm not talking about the image I'm talking about your last 500 messages (edited)

08:37

they mean nothing

ufo I was making fun of people who make that argument (aka YOU) so you sound insane right now

@brother noname i made that flowchart haha

I know

08:39

it's a based chat

08:39

chart

Brother Todarac

ufo I was making fun of people who make that argument (aka YOU) so you sound insane right now

what

New message in applicant-council OwO

08:40

Lul

I understand people’s aversion to the abstain button, and am not opposed to its removal

obviously at least 8 people (more than a 1/3 of vote) like it or they would not vote it! (edited)

I’m not saying I like it or not, as I voted abstain, just saying I get people’s reactions

Abstain votes only happen on people that are not that active or when not very many people know the person. This is not a bad thing, to me it means that that initiate has a few good friends in the group, people that really want them here. I have only voted abstain once this year on an initiate and that is clav, I dont really know him so dont want to help him get in but there are several people that really want him in here and I trust those people so I do not want to stop them getting there friend in here if I have no reason to vote no other than I dont know them very well. I hope the above gives some clarity on why I think abstain is very important and should not be removed. Also to put it into perspective there has been 192 15 & 20 this year total across 12 initiate votes. This is not the big problem some of you are making it out to be @here

What about if there are x % abstain votes then vote is moved forward some amount of time

we've already had 2 months on this guy

10:35

if you can't make a decision in two months, vote no

10:35

simple

10:36

you can't take into account what others want, just how it is. If you can't make a decision and you're having some doubts, then the obvious choice is no

Brother Oppenheimer

Abstain votes only happen on people that are not that active or when not very many people know the person. This is not a bad thing, to me it means that that initiate has a few good friends in the group, people that really want them here. I have only voted abstain once this year on an initiate and that is clav, I dont really know him so dont want to help him get in but there are several people that really want him in here and I trust those people so I do not want to stop them getting there friend in here if I have no reason to vote no other than I dont know them very well. I hope the above gives some clarity on why I think abstain is very important and should not be removed. Also to put it into perspective there has been 192 15 & 20 this year total across 12 initiate votes. This is not the big problem some of you are making it out to be @here

Also to put it into perspective there has been 192 yes

yes

15

& 20

abstain_neutral

this year total across 12 initiate votes. This is not the big problem some of you are making it out to be

putting it in this perspective is very flawed. You must think about it in the sense of a single vote. Not across multiple votes. This is because it effects those single votes greatly. It does NOT effect a full set of votes. (edited)

thistbh

1

the double here ping

10:38

owned

@Brother Fruit please explain your reasoning for using shitty "this tbh" emote (edited)

10:39

thistbh

10:39

should be used

sorry

thank you

Brother Casparov

Also to put it into perspective there has been 192 yes

yes

15

& 20

abstain_neutral

this year total across 12 initiate votes. This is not the big problem some of you are making it out to be

putting it in this perspective is very flawed. You must think about it in the sense of a single vote. Not across multiple votes. This is because it effects those single votes greatly. It does NOT effect a full set of votes. (edited)

I mean if u don’t think That he should get in change ur vote to no and he prob won’t get in

^^^ exactly

Image attachment

LOL

10:41

these guys

eight abstains?

10:42

for someone here for two months?

7 now because I change my vote BACK

10:42

I originally had it on no, the abstain was for testing purposes

10:43

don't try to downplay my statement with incorrectness

I mean it’s still a no so y are u complaining?

lmao

10:43

because more votes will happen

1

I mean I voted abstain not bc I don’t want him to be in here

10:43

So voting no would be wrong

voting no doesn't mean you dislike them

10:44

it means you don't think they should be a brother at that time

yes

10:44

when you like someone, doesn't mean she/he fits in the masons

If you have any reason to doubt the person you vote no, simple right? If you have no opinion/no reason to vote no then you can vote yes or abstain if you have no reason to vote yes either

abstain should happen very rarely

but it doesn't (edited)

10:45

because people abuse it

well or because they are lazy

10:45

or

yes terbin it should

because the new guy doesn't put effort in

10:45

so they didn't get to know him

there has been only 20 abstain votes this year!!!

hehehe

I explained the flaw there jordan

an abstain vote should require an explanation in here perhaps

when there is an obvious yes, no one is going to abstain

10:46

when it is like it is now

why not

10:47

I would still abstain or vote no if I did not want to vote yes

then just vote no?

I have no reason to on this vote

yea, because next vote will not have an abstain option anymore

Brother Casparov

then just vote no?

anyone I have an opinion on one way or the other I vote that way. This is the first time this year I have voted abstain, because I have no reason to vote the other 2

Image attachment

my guess is many people who want to vote no are afraid of hurting someone's feelings and vote abstain instead often

10:49

let's to statistics who did the most abstain votes

10:49

or who did how many

10:49

to see if there is a pattern

blind voting soon

hehe

this

yes

10:49

why not

anonymous voting with bot soon

Brother Oppenheimer

anyone I have an opinion on one way or the other I vote that way. This is the first time this year I have voted abstain, because I have no reason to vote the other 2

ye ok you don't use it often

exactly, but I want the option to use it when I need to!

whats the point though!

Image attachment

abstain provides nothing to the vote

loads of abstainers

10:51

abstain could also mean

LITERALLY nothing

new guy is not in vc often

10:51

it means I didn't get to know him for one reason or another I guess

Brother Casparov

LITERALLY nothing

exactly!!!!!

then why even vote???

1

I just don’t see why “not voting” isn’t the same

either yes, no or nothing at all

well

Because it should count towards the total people voting

it doesnt

if you don't vote

10:52

you are out

I don’t agree

haha

10:52

:)

10:52

abstain is good to see if people have seen the vote

Abstain - formally decline to vote either for or against a proposal or motion.

ye

Brother Fruit

Abstain - formally decline to vote either for or against a proposal or motion.

yes

but let's hope that the abstain are reduced next time

this means it doesn't count towards any total

they are a bit much on the last 2 initiates

so its useless

ok, so abstain is just a polite

?

catflushed_help

1

either you get a good opinion

brother terbin

they are a bit much on the last 2 initiates

yes because not many people know them

or you do nothing

“Abstentions do not count in tallying the vote negatively or positively; when members abstain, they are in effect attending only to contribute to a quorum. White votes, however, may be counted in the total of votes, depending on the legislation.”

Brother Oppenheimer

yes because not many people know them

jordan, clav has had the oportunity to get to know you for 2 months now

we usually discuss at meetings if prople are ready to vote

Brother Oppenheimer

yes because not many people know them

removing the abstain vote would remove that indicator, seeing if people got to see the vote

10:54

we had this whole discussion once or twice before

Brother Casparov

jordan, clav has had the oportunity to get to know you for 2 months now

yes then people should vote no if they dont think he has tried enough or is not brother material or vote yes if they do or abstain if they dont want to influence vote

I voted no because I trust that the other people and my own thoughts about him and his character, even with the little amount of talking i've done with him, are correct

If someone declines to participate in a vote I don’t feel they should count at all - including in counting total votes

2

10:56

for calculating percentages and such

without abstain those 7 people would probably just not vote giving the same outcome as if they abstained

Brother Fruit

If someone declines to participate in a vote I don’t feel they should count at all - including in counting total votes

agreed

Brother Oppenheimer

Because it should count towards the total people voting

Well no it wouldn’t be the same outcome because of this message here

yes, that means they want to be counted in the vote but dont want to sway it

how the fuck does that make any sense

10:57

"hey look I want to be counted in this vote"

doesn't want to sway the vote

Being counted = sway

look at me I voted

Maybe we aren’t on the same page with what “counted” refers to

10:58

What do you mean by “counted in the vote”

besides abstaining still sways votes, just in a stupid way

10:59

for example

when calculating how many % said yes, not counting abstainers

11:00

just the yes no votes

11:00

is what he means

11:00

I think

yes

abstain should = no

minecraftheart

3

no

should not be easy to get in

11:00

i think so

11:00

you might disagree

fat redpill

that's fine

11:01

if you abstain somethign went wrong

^

either the new dud did not try to get to know you

11:01

or you did not put in the effort

In which case you maybe shouldn’t be voting

hot take i know

yes but voting abstain indicates that

11:01

it's just what we do with the abstain

11:01

atm it's a no consequence vote (edited)

11:01

which it shouldn't be

I mean like “shouldn’t be included in the voting process” haha

11:02

but that’s too spicy for now

Brother Fruit

In which case you maybe shouldn’t be voting

hot take i know

did you try to get to know clav before voting no?

i think with Clav the case is clear

11:02

several masons wrote him

11:02

he didn't respond to many

I clearly explained my reason for voting no, had the situation terbin is referring to been different i would enthusiastically vote yes on Clav

same

11:03

but we had nordno, pint, ufo writing him

Imagine voting either yes, no or abstain

The votes are: YES=16, NO=4 - 80% SUCCESS

You were originally going to vote yes until the person in question did something a bit odd that you disliked, and thus
you wish to abstain.

The votes are now: YES=15, NO = 4 - 78% FAIL

This UNDERMINES the majority, as you have chosen to instead decide to abstain. The better option is to vote no, as this will seem more fair to the person being voted on.

IF you vote no instead: YES=15, NO =5 - 75% a much clearer, and imo fairer fail.

(edited)

brother terbin

he didn't respond to many

I did not know that, this is why votes should go live at a meeting so we can discuss better our reasons for voting what. If this is the case then my vote will probably change to no on this occasion

1

abstain should be no, because you don't know whether or not that person should join. And you wouldn't let someone in you don't know. So it should be no

minecraftheart

1

Brother Oppenheimer

I did not know that, this is why votes should go live at a meeting so we can discuss better our reasons for voting what. If this is the case then my vote will probably change to no on this occasion

admittedly, you can always ask what other people think

11:08

be a bit proactive

11:08

and you would have known this info sooner

Brother Casparov

Imagine voting either yes, no or abstain

The votes are: YES=16, NO=4 - 80% SUCCESS

You were originally going to vote yes until the person in question did something a bit odd that you disliked, and thus
you wish to abstain.

The votes are now: YES=15, NO = 4 - 78% FAIL

This UNDERMINES the majority, as you have chosen to instead decide to abstain. The better option is to vote no, as this will seem more fair to the person being voted on.

IF you vote no instead: YES=15, NO =5 - 75% a much clearer, and imo fairer fail.

(edited)

This is a really good post

minecraftheart

1

yes and people that vote yes or no should have time to persuade the abstainers to vote their way

I feel like people most certainly put their info out there man

my vote has now changed to no because of what terbin said

Err

I did not see it as there was 300+ messages in here when I woke up today

2 months

now there will be another 200 for anyone else

people have been talking about him constantly in this and other chats for a few days as well leading up to the vote

gotta agree

only 22 mentions in this chat most with little explanation

Image attachment

look, if I haven't yet convinced you of the major flaws of abstention, then I don't think I ever will be able to. Just know there are some damning flaws there

I did see terbins previous statement but he did not say why till now

I believe breithan had some good explanation

check these

Image attachment

and there are more chats

11:14

yeh

this should be the one for initiates

there is also instances where people talk about him and don't actually mention his name

11:15

the only way you'd be able to get a good instance of knowledge: just ask

11:16

"hey, what are your thoughts on clav? I haven't really made an opinion myself, and can't seem to be able to cuz he isn't in vc too often, and timezones are a thing"

11:16

I joined back maybe 2 weeks ago and formed my own opinion on the guy just by asking around and seeing conversations with others

11:17

haven't once been able to talk with him due to timezone issues

Yes I know, I read almost every message in this discord with the exception of #general-20210704 and through reading all of them I could not make a decision which is why I initially voted abstain then after hearing what terbin said I changed it to no. If you want less people to vote abstain we just need clearer discussions about the initiates, especially in vc at a meeting so it can be recorded in the #journal for everyone to see clearly without all the clutter in between.

I do agree on that front

11:21

but again, it is possible to be proactive

24h vote goes through meeting (edited)

11:26

as usual

11:26

for this reason

Brother Fruit

This is a really good post

I learnt this form of example from this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU&t=178s watch at this timestamp and treat each colour as yes, no and abstain

Simulating alternate voting systems

11:28

purple is abstain for example

we talked about this lol

its a pretty good vid

this vid is for election type stuff it does not cover binary choosing that well

I did mention look at that specific timestamp

11:31

at 178 seconds

11:31

he goes over an example of plurality where there is orange and green.

11:31

say orange is yes and green is no

11:31

orange is winning, and then you add purple into the mix

11:31

it undermines the majority

11:31

and thus green is crowned the winner

11:32

again, treat orange as yes, green as no and purple as abstain

11:33

you cannot undermine a minority so

11:33

abstain bad

you can see this from any angle and get a different opinion from it lol

11:33

theres no clear answer to what the optimal outcome is

Brother Casparov

Imagine voting either yes, no or abstain

The votes are: YES=16, NO=4 - 80% SUCCESS

You were originally going to vote yes until the person in question did something a bit odd that you disliked, and thus
you wish to abstain.

The votes are now: YES=15, NO = 4 - 78% FAIL

This UNDERMINES the majority, as you have chosen to instead decide to abstain. The better option is to vote no, as this will seem more fair to the person being voted on.

IF you vote no instead: YES=15, NO =5 - 75% a much clearer, and imo fairer fail.

(edited)

literally math ^

11:34

optimally, you make it truly binary

11:34

and provide anonymous voting to stop any spoiler effects from taking place, or any biases

imo fairer fail

11:34

is not math

thats why imo is there

11:34

the rest of it

11:35

anyways. We are going about providing anonymous voting now

i have always liked it to not be anonymous

11:36

because people cant make a retard vote and not defend it

I dont understand how that works. A vote is a vote

11:36

you either like the guy or dont

11:36

or

11:36

you choose not to vote at all

11:36

not abstain

11:37

just stay away from the vote

11:37

if you WANT to vote (and don't have a real decision in mind), vote no. Because in that way, you aren't undermining the majority in any way (edited)

this changes nothing except the psychology

psychology is basically everything in voting

11:40

people will either be angry because their vote was undermined, or they'll be angry because their vote wasn't increased as much as it could have been. In this way, everyone can compromise

before abstain people just didnt vote i dont think it will be different

thats fine

11:42

the abstain "vote" just does nothing for anyone

11:42

if you REALLY want to vote (and don't have a real decision in mind), vote no

Brother Oppenheimer

only 22 mentions in this chat most with little explanation

the context is connected to the mentions if you read the messages before and after

12:11

we spoke about him extensively I felt and tried to motivate

12:11

trying to make it more clear and not so obscure what is needed

12:11

reaching out

12:11

trying to ask his friends to speak to him

ye this was talked about quite extensively if we end up wanting the anonymous bot thing then abstain is pointless anyways

12:39

well see

i like that

anonymous voting would be bad, you would not be able to ask people why they voted a certain way or have a discussion on it to try to change their minds. Like I did earlier with my vote.

^

15:23

agreed

15:23

I'm not for anonymous voting

15:23

I am for removing abstain to

15:23

tho

Almost any significant vote irl for anything I am aware of is anonymous (including the actual masons zany_cat

zany_cat

)

i am for removing abstain, I would prefer non-anonymous voting, but I could understand that some people are aware that this vote could be shared, also outside mason circles, so they are careful

15:25

and what joey said

Terbin, based as ever

Brother Oppenheimer

anonymous voting would be bad, you would not be able to ask people why they voted a certain way or have a discussion on it to try to change their minds. Like I did earlier with my vote.

The only reason why we tried to change your mind was because you were an abstain vote due to not being able to make up your mind. The thought of changing someone's mind like that during a voting process after they've already voted either yes or no honestly sounds ridiculous.

16:29

I don't think I've ever seen an instance in the spawnmasons where someone has had the audacity to change someone's mind like that other than abstain voters.

16:30

But alas, I have spent little time here

its not that ridiculous cause it happens especially in voice i just feel the social pressure of defending your vote when someone asks is good makes people vote a little less out of self interest and more group and if you have an opinion but youre too afraid to stand up for it / tell us then idk if i care lol

Hmm. Fine. We don't have to do anonymous voting, I just feel like that just opens up bully tactics

16:39

And it does create some bias for obvious reasons

16:40

Main goal is to get rid of abstain, plus the bot is pretty epic and I think we should try using it.

i like anonymous voting

17:25

for now

17:25

why not try it

we could have a vote on it at the meeting if people want to try it or not

17:50

to me is seams very pointless for initiates because we are discussing our views on a person and giving reasons to vote yes or no so everyone can tell what way you would vote anyway

1

17:51

It could be good for lodge votes maybe but even then we would want people to tell us why they voted that way so we can make appropriate changes to proposals etc.

what if....we just treat abstain votes like other meme votes (yes hello, smib, etc) and ignore them.

18:01

literally nothing would change in the outcome. People worried about the impact of abstain could instead focus on the amount of spammy meme votes.

we already do but people seem very triggered at them anyways

we could just vote if we want to keep abstain or remove it

thistbh

3

minecraftheart

2

lol trolls gonna vote abstain on the abstain vote

abstain_neutral

4

lol

18:17

well in that case we just ignore it

thistbh

2

redpill

2

18:17

abstain_neutral

2

delete abstain

abstain_neutral

5

A

abstain_neutral

5

b

abstain_neutral

4

s

abstain_neutral

4

N

abstain_neutral

4

o

abstain_neutral

4

k

abstain_neutral

4

fucking chain breaker

abstain_neutral

4

wow

abstain_neutral

4

lamp man bad

abstain_neutral

4

i was so happy floyd got it

abstain_neutral

4

18:32

wait

i got it too but I wanted to fix it

i dont think i got it

18:33

i was trying for absolutely

I was going for abstain

18:34

abstain_neutral

4

abstain_neutral

1

delete abstain

abstain_neutral

5

yeshello

1

upboat

1

yes

1

i just feel the social pressure of defending your vote  when someone asks is good
makes people vote a little less out of self interest and more group
and if you have an opinion but youre too afraid to stand up for it / tell us then idk if i care lol

19:32

i think the exact opposite

19:33

that social pressure is bad because it is always pushing in the direction of conformity

19:33

the dreaded "bandwagoning"

19:34

"group interest" isn't a real thing, it's a social construct of all the other voters

19:34

you should not vote in group interest

19:34

you should vote on if you personally want the thing to happen ( / want the person in)

19:34

that is what voting.... is

19:34

the group interest is determined by the collective of individual interest (as an artifact of the fact that we chose to use democracy lol) (edited)

what about the last line

i disagree strongest with that

With an anonymous vote on an initiate: You invite an initiate and then he is voted no on, you then will not know who to speak to to find out why they voted that way. you cant talk to them to find out why you cant ask if said initiate can do anything to change their vote next time = bad

Brother Entropy

what about the last line

it might be nice if people explain why they vote, and i'd appreciate if they would in here, especially if they go against the grain

19:44

but putting yourself into that inferno of people arguing with you isn't part of what you sign up for when you think 'democracy'

Brother leijurv

it might be nice if people explain why they vote, and i'd appreciate if they would in here, especially if they go against the grain

How would you know what the grain was if its anonymous????

people would discuss in here beforehand, like they always have

19:45

in fact i'd like it if everyone talked in here beforehand, but maybe that's idealistic

that dose not mean they will actually vote that way

19:46

and you will never know

they often dont say a thing in here and seem to vote completely random till i dm them and tell them that they never said anything in app

19:46

and then they come up with a reason nobody had before

you, as worshipful, would still be able to see who voted what, and still give a nudge to explain in applicant committee

19:47

that could be a feature lol

all votes should be hidden until the vote is over then everyone can see it

that also could be done breithan

thats

Brother leijurv

you, as worshipful, would still be able to see who voted what, and still give a nudge to explain in applicant committee

so why not everyone!

something

Brother Oppenheimer

so why not everyone!

because people harass each other severely for voting against what they believe

19:47

it makes people bandwagon and conform

no they dont!!!

people should vote in their individual interest then the group interest is determined by the percentages lol

Brother leijurv

because people harass each other severely for voting against what they believe

Show me one example of this! This never happens!

terbin & aaronalvin

?

so basically never

19:48

it rarely happens lol

the social pressure exists, for example like entropy said

19:49

i just feel the social pressure of defending your vote  when someone asks is good
makes people vote a little less out of self interest and more group

19:49

even just the threat will influence behavior

yes but if you vote that way for a silly meme reason (what happens a lot) people should be able to ask you why that was!

nope ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

that is not harassment its a conversation

if you want a conversation, have it in here beforehand. we don't vote by consensus, we do it by mathematical percentages. it would be nicer if we did consensus like wikipedia does it where it isn't a hard %, but rather a tradeoff judgement call based on the strength and numbers combined on each side. (edited)

sounds complicated

I just want to make clear that "clav" is not "Kelvidore" in case someone confuses them (edited)

1

Brother Entropy

sounds complicated

yeah it's a big burden on the wiki admins (or in this case, worshipfuls lol)

I was not sure who was spoken about when we talked about clav in the last meeting. At that meeting clav seemed to be conceived as a decent guy

i dont buy any "innocent" angel_cat

angel_cat

"i just want to ask people why they vote a certain way" -- when you peel back what that really means, it's that you want to pressure people into voting your way (any reason to vote another way must be a "meme reason" of course), and "having a conversation" really means holding them over the metaphorical fire of social shaming so that they change their vote. a better solution might be like https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/795015362474278982 where a private nudge could be given. hell, it could even be automated in the bot (if your side is in a strong minority (<30%) it could DM you, let you know, and let you explain)

SO TRUE!!!

Image attachment

you could link instead of just reposting something

19:57

that is 10 lines above

tbh I hate links, especially when your reading an old conversation as you loose your place

Brother leijurv

that social pressure is bad because it is always pushing in the direction of conformity

THIS

21:08

We're siblings, not twins, we should not all be the same :3

who is NetherRad?

no idea

netherrad is Raanch and Guddy's friend (edited)

21:52

they all base together

21:52

and ranch and guddy* were in here so they were like "can we invite our last friend" (edited)

21:52

hes cool

oh, never saw them ask

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353428205723713536/790771950594949130

I must have missed it coz of christmas

example usage

22:56

$I don't care

22:57

YOU ARE HECKIN CUTE AND VALID FOR NOT VOTING, YOU GET ONE GOOD BOY POINT, I LOVE YOU

I LOVE YOU LEIJURV

Good boy points!? I fucking live and die for those.

so

00:11

stuff that was discussed will be in journal right?

always

epic

sounds like you guys had some extensive talks which is good

since when is Rain here?

several months lol

I just seen now

01:08

also is it a girl or a kid. I cant tell from the voice somehow

girl

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/621770507234181151/768585655114137600

she's like 19 right?

lol what I can remember reading this but somehow I didnt process she joined

Brother Pint

she's like 19 right?

16

I thought she was 17

16 wtf?

youd be surprised how young some brothers are

aaaaaa

snugglebugaj

I thought she was 17

she might be now idk

Brother Entropy

youd be surprised how young some brothers are

01:42

who’s younger than me

01:42

rathause is like right around me i think

01:42

maybe zippie

me

I’m 18

hanscor

me and hanscor youngest masons i think

when we get FamPump in, he'll be the youngest bro

01:48

17

i turned 16 not very long ago

01:49

and hanscor 16 i think

wtf

woah

youngmasons

it's so weird not being the youngest in a group

i thought i was youngmasons

you used to be

i think i joined march 2017?

I can check the spreadsheet lol

so i would’ve been 15 then

but that seems accurate

Brother Fruit

maybe zippie

im 17 rn

Gebrüder Zippie

im 17 rn

I'm banning you from vc text till ur 18

lol

clav left

someone leaked?

1Charlie3

clav left

well, that's his fault

20:31

did he unfriend anyone? i don't see him on my Discord friend list and i'm v certain i added him

He's still on mine

still on mine

Still on mine

Crinch

rip

hes unreasonably negative lol

Image attachment

01:24

maybe well hear from him again

01:24

some time

thats borderline guilt tripping

idk im starting to believe he actually thinks these things

he has no idea how much we talked about this lol

i told him he had to stay just around if he wanted another chance so hes really not doing this to gain something

01:27

of course he has no idea lol

on the topic of voting tho

01:30

the bot is complete

:))))

Chipoff

yes

18

abstain_neutral

1

22:02

DaPorkchop

yes

23

2

22:02

DarkXL6

yes

18

abstain_neutral

1

22:03

Guddy

yes

10

1

abstain_neutral

2

22:03

Gunther

yes

7

5

abstain_neutral

2

22:03

John

yes

5

15

22:04

Kelvidore

yes

10

8

22:04

Netherrad

yes

9

2

abstain_neutral

3

22:04

rain

yes

18

22:05

speeddemon

yes

2

7

abstain_neutral

3

22:05

thebes

yes

18

abstain_neutral

1

22:05

yata

yes

4

7

abstain_neutral

3

22:05

biggus

yes

8

10

abstain_neutral

1

1

22:05

brady

yes

4

7

abstain_neutral

4

1

22:06

diganandbuilder

yes

5

8

abstain_neutral

2

22:06

elvengineer

yes

3

6

abstain_neutral

5

22:06

familypumpkin6

yes

20

22:07

laizboi

18

abstain_neutral

3

1

22:07

nemac

yes

13

abstain_neutral

3

1

22:08

@SpawnMason friendly ping to see how we are feeling on some of the A LOT of guest we have. This is not all guest but guest that present to me as having Mason potential

22:08

this is not an official vote for anything

oh boy

rebane made me do it

rebane

6

like 2/3 of the list i have never talked to

22:09

lol

just vote on the people you like then!

22:09

or dislike

yes this is exactly what I had in mind

discord is rate limiting me

I voted yes or no to every one

22:10

no abstains

@Brother Todarac fuck you for "no" on brady

I am leading by example

I'm deleting all a stains

owlo

abstains

22:10

jkjk

Brother Todarac

owlo

shutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

also yes feel free to discuss anyone mentioned here if you have anything to say about them

@here vote no on brady

all the nos on John :(

cringe

broder lampa

@here vote no on brady

i LITERALLY hate you

John is chill

22:11

he's a lot more mature now

vote yes on Torogadude

I think it's looking pretty obvious we should give dapork another run

22:12

this vote is wistful

22:12

aspirational

22:12

it doesn't reflect any actual change in daporkchop

Image attachment

yeshello

1

@brother noname just take back your nos?

22:13

ez?

I will I will

ufo is making a list, checking it twice, removing abstain cause it’s a centerist vice

SO BASED

22:13

holy shit

22:14

mfw when they add abstain as an option to the US presidential elections

brother noname

mfw when they add abstain as an option to the US presidential elections

what if abstain wins election?

no president

then we have no president

Would be better than the shitstain that got all the votes 4 years ago

for 4 years

americans dont have to vote right

anarchy country

Brother Entropy

americans dont have to vote right

correct

22:15

kinda like the masons

22:15

so then they just dont go lol

no but if you vote abstain and it wins we get anarchy server irl

redpill

1

Redraft the mason constitution vote

we need to impeach entropy

We the People of the Spawnmasons, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Spawnmasons and denounce pony porn once and for all.

ufo didnt include a vote for mini

22:19

rly makes u think

fat red pill above me

fat ufo above me

lmao

No more women

22:20

I’m enough

I wuvvvv mini tho

You didn’t meet me at Universal and must suffer the consequences

bruh

22:21

you left the masons

So you only like me because I’m a mason

22:22

I thought this went beyond that

*You are a mason because we like you

I’m a mason because herm liked me

vote to kick nick

22:23

haha just kidding

Make pony porn illegal

redpill

1

I would not have a problem with that

22:23

Friendship with Benefits doesn't even have actual ponies

Брат Bird

I thought this went beyond that

you know I love you

I love DS

me too

wow we are brother

we are ds brothers

if nick joins us

DS short for dicks catflushed_help

catflushed_help

(edited)

then we are

22:25

3 DS brothers

wow

22:25

who will be the 3rd ds brother

ßrother LordNo.

ufo is making a list, checking it twice, removing abstain cause it’s a centerist vice

THIS. IS. SO. TRUE.

I will dig ds lite out of closet

abstain is vice

22:25

vice is sin

22:25

sin is against god

I thought Vice was news website

redpill

1

Estonians always have the worst takes

redpill

1

i love estonian takeout

redpill

1

Sin was made up by religious philosophers in order to sell more bibles

Brother Todarac

Sin was made up by religious philosophers in order to sell more bibles

ethanol was made up by "history of ethanol in human society" publishers in order to sell more cope books

22:26

sunglasses_cat

Brother leijurv

THIS. IS. SO. TRUE.

notice how I didn't include a single abstain only other cringe masons put it

22:27

smh

22:27

society

This guy definitely has counted the chimneys

did we get too cocky ethanolbros?

https://www.amazon.com/Drink-Cultural-History-Iain-Gately/dp/1592404642

22:27

Alcohol is a fundamental part of Western culture

oh no, todarac has fallen to the cope book

22:27

sad!

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/796138087264026624

22:28

vote

Brother Todarac

Alcohol is a fundamental part of Western culture

u know what else was a fundamental part of western culture for a lot of years? slavery

22:28

left wing destroyed

Under that logic the opioid crisis is a central part of western culture

SO true.

Brother leijurv

left wing destroyed

we when I drop my kfc bucket on the street and car drive over one of the chicken wings (the left one)

[HR/PR/G] Rebane v3

we when I drop my kfc bucket on the street and car drive over one of the chicken wings (the left one)

me

The Red Hot Chili Peppers are cardinal saints of western culture

thistbh

1

Opioids are a fundemental part of western culture

todarac logic: griefing is part of 2b2t culture so why are you mad i griefed your base

22:29

rolling_eyes_cat

22:29

sin is bad no matter how many people do it sunglasses_cat

sunglasses_cat

Griefing is a fundemental part of 2b2t culture

classic sinner moment spelling fundamental wrong

Western culture is a fundamental part of middle eastern culture

we are really all one culture if you think about it

todarac i will sell you indulgences

Maybe the real western culture was the friends we made along the way

ok take this to #general-20210704 or #vc-text-20210704 now so we can talk about the guest

22:34

or not I'm not your mom

ok dad

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/796138087264026624

I disagree that this vote exists as it’s not anonymous

So true

23:52

It’s okay though

23:52

It’s not a real vote

^ britian deciding to leave the EU be like

Looool

Gebrüder Zippie

I disagree that this vote exists as it’s not anonymous

but it's not a vote

Lol

23:53

Idc either way

23:54

Tbh I’m very surprised that rain has so many yes votes as last time I asked everyone said no

it’s a vote for guests not for initiates

23:54

except its not a vote

23:54

it’s a Survey™️

Ah misunderstood that

23:55

Well then I would have voted differently

23:55

This is a we need non anonymous voting

THIS VOTE IS A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT FOR INITIATION

Lol

Sage isn’t on that list, but he is awesome

00:00

8 no’s for biggus

️ he is also great

sage is awesome

Brother Wailn

8 no’s for biggus

️ he is also great

also yeah wtf :(

00:01

and elv was a really cool dude i wish he didn't quit

He’s active on cons pretty sure

00:03

He plays from time to time on 2b

Brother Fruit

it’s a vote for guests not for initiates

no its not retard did you even read my message (edited)

00:06

it's for GUEST WHO HAVE MASON POTENTIAL

Brother Wailn

Sage isn’t on that list, but he is awesome

fuck you're so right i forgot sage but in all fairness he hasn't been in the discord tooo too long

00:08

but anyways Henry it's more of like how we feeling if they could be initiates or not kinda thing

00:08

not so much about keeping them guest or not

brother noname

fuck you're so right i forgot sage but in all fairness he hasn't been in the discord tooo too long

yeah true

he's def cool with me he's a seemingly very trustworthy guy

for sure, he's one of the first people I met on 2b

brother noname

but anyways Henry it's more of like how we feeling if they could be initiates or not kinda thing

yeah i get it

00:40

i just was too lazy to type all that out

okay good

(edited)

no this is fine because it's meant to be a discussion and isn't an actual decision

redpill

1

00:55

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

angel_cat

❤️

smiling_cat_with_3_hearts

Not voting on anyone cuz idrc lmao

01:25

Except daporkchop, he's epic

very valid and cool opinion (edited)

i dont see kelv as bro material, but if he is ever not in this disc i wil CRY (edited)

neither Cubes nor mini are in that list :(

pretty sure cubes doesnt want to

^

Brother leijurv

i LITERALLY hate you

Why? Brady never speaks

he is based

Not enough :)

08:54

We don’t want people looking down on us right ? And we are not worth his attention

08:55

Don’t ask what the masons can do for Brady, ask what Brady can do for the masons

Based opinion

gm (good morning)

brother terbin

Don’t ask what the masons can do for Brady, ask what Brady can do for the masons

he does not want anything from the masons lol

i know

10:27

that's why I wrote that

why should he?

10:28

is that not a good thing?

he should not

its not any diff then Thebes (edited)

it was more a joke on him joining, and the obvious answer being he does not have any interest in joining

10:28

true true

many other guests even

jep and we could lose them

woke up on wrong side terbin? :)

the ones that don't participate at all

10:29

no no

10:30

I am completely calm

10:30

but thx for asking :)

just you seemed negative from msgs in #restart and here

10:30

but good good

ahh ye

10:30

the restart thing was just to tease iron a bit

10:31

but you are right, it could be

10:31

so good call in any case to ask that

10:31

always like honesty like that

iron bot moment

just a funny observation - military dudes get offended/sad easily if they don't get their way? Mike and now Clav

10:39

both are cool dudes, but left when things didn't go as they wanted

10:39

quickly

tru

sample size might be too small for a conclusion though :)

Conclusion -> all military bad

not tru

13:38

2/3

oh god nekramite is gonna leave

yes

2

Image attachment

20:24

chipoff pork dark rain thebes family all have a lot of mason potential

agreed, I like talking to all of them

21:41

give newer people like netherrad and guddy a month or two, I think people will actually really like them too

21:41

they are super active

Gud is very gud

22:08

Pun unintended

22:08

Netherrad seems very cool too

Has Thebes been vcing

nota word

Yeah he doesn’t

thebes also doesn't write anything in this discord

i am one of the rare people who have heard thebes voice and lived

Lul

09:38

I still don't get how Thebes has brother potential without saying a word or vcing once here

yeah

Yeah thebes’ should be one of those permanent guests imo

^

true

imo there should be a special role for these guests otherwise we will always restart the discussion about them (sorry I think that was already discussed)

Brother Wailn

Yeah thebes’ should be one of those permanent guests imo

agree

When are we planning on voting for Raaanch?

You sure like to crack the vote-on-people whip

I mean, no need to vote if people still need time to make up their minds... This is just an easy one for me to decide on.

we dont need to do a full month but god its been 12 days calm down lol

#voteraaanchnow

05:10

that'd be an easy 100%

05:10

if anyone says no it'd be simply to troll

let's vote rn

yeshello

1

we voted emperor in in like 5 minutes

05:18

lodge was half over. when he was brought up and we voted

let’s vote with the new bot

yes

it’s so cute

im gonna vote no and noone is gonna know

Brother Fruit

let’s vote with the new bot

lets not say we did and never talk about it again

wat

lets not, say we did and never talk about it again (edited)

not say we did?

15:17

weird phrasing

15:17

why r u malding

cause its a dumb bot

how so

brother noname

cause its a dumb bot

>:(

Brother Fruit

it’s so cute

Much more accurate

notice ufo did not provide any legitimate reason

17:19

something something argument won

^^^^^

don't need to fix something that ain't broken

17:24

Image attachment

17:25

it's also not even that much people voting for yes vs no

It shouldnt have been "try anonymous voting" It shouldve been "try hiding vote counts until vote is closed"

thistbh

3

brother noname

don't need to fix something that ain't broken

tell that to babbaj

Brother Toilet (breithan)

It shouldnt have been "try anonymous voting" It shouldve been "try hiding vote counts until vote is closed"

well it’s both

17:33

Imagine if closed voting was what we always had, and then someone came asking for public voting. IMO, that would seem pretty suspect. Why would somebody need to see how other masons were voting?

17:34

If it were a case of votes failing without any understanding of why that was occurring, that could easily be handled by Worshipfuls privately

brother noname

cause its a dumb bot

what if we give it a super hot pfp and call it VowoTE

so true

real talk though, people should woman up and vote no if they feel no, and we shouldn't be afraid of initiates seeing these no votes because if an initiate sees a no vote and acts all weird/leaves/acts like a dick to the no voter then we didn't want them anyway.

17:45

Lamp voted no on me because of a meme I posted. I'm happy he felt comfortable to do so, and I hold no ill will towards him for it. I saw it as a flag that I need to get to know him more, or at least be less annoying around him

ßrother LordNo.

real talk though, people should woman up and vote no if they feel no, and we shouldn't be afraid of initiates seeing these no votes because if an initiate sees a no vote and acts all weird/leaves/acts like a dick to the no voter then we didn't want them anyway.

I dont think thats what they are worried about?

17:48

I thought they where saying that "othere brothers" would pressure people to change there vote

17:48

And I am not aware of this ever happening

that is a facet for sure. The whole "herd voting"

Brother Oppenheimer

And I am not aware of this ever happening

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/795015659305566208 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/795015694252113931

hiding a problem though rarely fixes it

Brother leijurv

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/795015659305566208 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/795015694252113931

I know you said that but never explained what happened, I still dont know what happened between them

ßrother LordNo.

hiding a problem though rarely fixes it

this is a troll comment, if the problem if people shaming others, anonymous voting does fix it

Brother Oppenheimer

I know you said that but never explained what happened, I still dont know what happened between them

o

17:50

one of my Earliest Masonic Memories

17:50

was terbin being the deciding no vote on aaronalvin

17:51

and ppl being super toxic in early vcs about it

17:51

they didnt think it was justified

Brother leijurv

this is a troll comment, if the problem if people shaming others, anonymous voting does fix it

If a vote fails that "should have gone through", it wont stop the shaming, it will just make it more panicked and less focused.

how do you figure

"you guys let this vote fail" "which one of you did it" "I know it was mason because they are always saying how they dont like that person"

Brother leijurv

was terbin being the deciding no vote on aaronalvin

Surly any of the no votes are the deciding vote as you can change your vote/mind any time within the 24h?

Brother Oppenheimer

Surly any of the no votes are the deciding vote as you can change your vote/mind any time within the 24h?

that's exactly right, except somehow there was this very uncomfortable bandwagoning as terbin was seen as the one Who Could Have Potentially Been Convinced To Vote Yes

ßrother LordNo.

"you guys let this vote fail" "which one of you did it" "I know it was mason because they are always saying how they dont like that person"

except you don't have to "always say how you don't like the person" anymore

Brother leijurv

that's exactly right, except somehow there was this very uncomfortable bandwagoning as terbin was seen as the one Who Could Have Potentially Been Convinced To Vote Yes

Was it known before hand that Terbin was on the fence?

ßrother LordNo.

Was it known before hand that Terbin was on the fence?

i really don't remember maybe someone else can give context

17:54

but i'd say yes probably

Do you think Terbin is the kind of person to be shy about, or lie about the fact that he voted no if someone asked? (edited)

terbin can please correct me if i'm wrong, but he withdrew from the group for a bit afterwards because of that pressure

17:55

so no i don't think he's that kind of person, but given that event, maybe he might in the future

yeah I see where you are coming from

17:56

either way, I don't feel it is black or white. This is a very grey situation.

Did you join during the whole terbin owning the discord fiasco? That could have been the underlying cause of the negativity towards terbin?

no, this looks like it was late june 2019

I guess the thing that I feel we'll have lost with anonymous voting is the ability to easily find out why a vote failed. Sometimes, masons will vote no, not because they have some personal vendetta against the initiate, but because the initiate just hasn't been able to make a connection with that person. In the past, masons vouching for an initiate have been able to say "Hey, your vote is going well, but a couple people are still unsure. You should try to make time to get in vc this week, especially if you see mason x,y,or z in there. Those three are the three that don't feel like they know you well enough for a Yes vote. (edited)

Now, if a vote fails, the convo sill go something like this: "Hey, your vote started. Based on all the talk, I think it'll pass for sure." "Nice! Thanks dude" One Day Later "Hey, vote failed" "Awwe man. Do you know what went wrong? "No" "Do you know what I should've done differently?" "Nope" "Are we allowed to re-nominae and try again in the future?" "Technically yes" "If we do, can I do anything to help convince people to change their votes?" "There's literally no way to know what you need to do differently. Because we don't know why it failed. We don't know who voted no, and we don't know why." (edited)

I think we semi agreed last meeting that we wouldn’t do completely anonymous voting, would just keep it anonymous till after vote was closed

But these conversations happen in #applicant-committee already

That way we could discuss after without any pressure during the vote

But if the problem is vote-shaming, won't that still happen once we reveal the votes?

Maybe

it passed so were just gonna try what they made and see how it goes

ßrother LordNo.

what if we give it a super hot pfp and call it VowoTE

very tempting

Brother Entropy

it passed so were just gonna try what they made and see how it goes

it passed at 53 percent that's barely passing

19:00

half the group will not like anonymous voting

it passed 53 percent thats passing

an intiate wouldn't pass at that

its been like this for years ufo

But if we do 80% to pass the vote, shouldn't we do 80% to change the voting process?

based

Just seems logical\ (edited)

boomerang for worshipful

we have a high threshold for approving people only

if we seriously let a 53 percent vote past I'm gonna be angry and riot

19:02

and I definitely won't vote anymore

19:02

maybe coup?

19:02

yes

19:06

tbh

19:06

Let’s storm the spawnmason capitol on const @brother noname

redpill

1

me after getting blocked from breaking into #worshipful-chat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMbI0zNL4n8

We’re storming the capital , it’s a revolution

redpill

1

its stupid to make a scene because it barely passed more than half want to try it you can storm the capitol all you want lol

What if our first anonymous vote is anonymously voting whether we should vote on initiates anonymously? (edited)

bluepill

2

the group is divided

damn

No meme

you really want the group to be divided @Brother Entropy

19:09

instead of us actually coming up with a compromise we all agree on

19:09

3000 iq

the current thing leijurv explained seems quite reasonable to me and id almost vote yes on

19:10

yet im a chicken and afraid of change so i havent

everyone Heil your fuher @Brother Entropy

I guess I would be okay with anonymous voting if the 'no' votes still came with an explanation. Like, if the voting system was an anonymous form asking "Vote yes or no," followed by "Reason for no vote (if applicable):" That way, people wouldn't be at risk of getting harassed for their no vote, but nominators and initiates would be able to track how things are going and what the initiate needs to work on. It wouldn't tell them which masons to reach out to specifically, but at least it would give them some insight.

I'm just never voting in anonymous

redpill

2

19:24

and it's my right

tbh

Bromger Boomerang

But if we do 80% to pass the vote, shouldn't we do 80% to change the voting process?

This is honestly reasonable in the general case, but since all that's changing here is the timing of when what's visible I don't think it's strictly necessary. But I agree with the sentiment. For example, I don't think 51 percent should be able to change the "80 percent for initiation" down to 50

Bromger Boomerang

I guess I would be okay with anonymous voting if the 'no' votes still came with an explanation. Like, if the voting system was an anonymous form asking "Vote yes or no," followed by "Reason for no vote (if applicable):" That way, people wouldn't be at risk of getting harassed for their no vote, but nominators and initiates would be able to track how things are going and what the initiate needs to work on. It wouldn't tell them which masons to reach out to specifically, but at least it would give them some insight.

This is one of the things I suggested: having a free-form text field where you can just explain why you voted the way you did

i'm hard agaisnt anonynous voting. we all know or kinda know everyone in the group, so why should we try to hide anything fairly important from eachother - like letting a new person in?

19:38

if we have a problem with people being pressured into a certain vote, all the pressured person has to do is tell some1 else: "hey, so-and-so is doing x" (edited)

Brother Entropy

yet im a chicken and afraid of change so i havent

lol

i'd very much like to know what my bros and voting on and why

redpill

1

Brother Pint

if we have a problem with people being pressured into a certain vote, all the pressured person has to do is tell some1 else: "hey, so-and-so is doing x" (edited)

victim blaming band aid solution

Brother Pint

i'd very much like to know what my bros and voting on and why

im sure you do, but that's not an inherent (or even a common) variant on democracy which commonly is anonymous

and at the least, if we do elect to do anon voting, we could have a vote-reveal at the end

if we do elect to do

We did

Brother leijurv

im sure you do, but that's not an inherent (or even a common) variant on democracy which commonly is anonymous

this isn't a usual democracy; it's a brotherhood

Brother Pint

this isn't a usual democracy; it's a brotherhood

Maybe we should change the rule away from a numeric percentage and towards consensus based discussion (like how Wikipedia does it) with no hard cutoffs

Brother leijurv

if we do elect to do

We did

news

i think this is still not clear leijurv https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797154402804826153

19:41

wiki sounds like 5x the trouble and problems

Yeah it is, for the people who close discussions (wiki admins -> worshipful)

Brother leijurv

Maybe we should change the rule away from a numeric percentage and towards consensus based discussion (like how Wikipedia does it) with no hard cutoffs

that's a possibility

Brother Entropy

i think this is still not clear leijurv https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797154402804826153

I lowkey think that is maybe caused by you writing the vote that way and trying to get me and boomerang to stop talking about it by switching to voting instead of discussion, the vote could have been more clear if we had talked about all these possible variants and ended up on a clear idea that could be yes'd or no'd

19:43

I didn't write that in lodge votes you did lol

well you keep saying its an option

Yes

is it the option or not

19:44

like its all the difference

yes if only you and boomerang went in circles for another 10 mins it would have been solved

(edited)

(anonymous)VOTEMASONS

Just to point this out, actual democratic voting systems are extremely rare because anonymous voting causes these kinds of complications. Most "democracies" use a representative systems where members of a senate are elected. Those members vote on policy and it is, get this, not anonymous.

There are many variants we have discussed and this 15 to 13 vote was ambiguous, I can't magically make it unambiguous

Brother Todarac

yes if only you and boomerang went in circles for another 10 mins it would have been solved

(edited)

False dichotomy

Bromger Boomerang

Just to point this out, actual democratic voting systems are extremely rare because anonymous voting causes these kinds of complications. Most "democracies" use a representative systems where members of a senate are elected. Those members vote on policy and it is, get this, not anonymous.

Highly based

19:45

Applicant discussion happens in here, worshipfuls are the only ones who get to vote (based on said discussion)

i think most of the people against anonymous would be fine if they get the reveal

If we clarify terms of impeachment, I'm fine with that.

Bromger Boomerang

If we clarify terms of impeachment, I'm fine with that.

It is, and has always been, 51 percent to remove someone

19:47

Either from spawnmason or worshipful

anonymous voting for 30 people

19:48

what a fucking joke

Brother leijurv

Applicant discussion happens in here, worshipfuls are the only ones who get to vote (based on said discussion)

I mean, that's basically what applicant council was, only with more than just worshipfuls. (edited)

(app council was 80% of sm and a mess)

I preferred the council system tbh. I'd vote to go back to that before changing to anonymous. (edited)

redpill

2

ufo will try anything once, including multiple hard drugs but not anonymous voting

oh imma try

19:50

but i aint gonna like it

19:51

also i would never do heroin or meth (edited)

19:51

so

19:51

and by try it i mean im not gonna vote and let the lil snowflakes who are too scared of our normal voting method work

thistbh

1

ok were gonna try the bot for one vote next week and then were gonna do approval with all options to see what to keep

2

19:52

lo

better put abstain

19:52

now im all for abstain

how did we get here

cause we made a new even shittier voting system

redpill

2

19:54

when nothing was wrong

Mail-in-voting when?

based

i think im still waiting for a package from breithan that was sent before christmas

dont change the subject

19:55

Lol. Probably weighs a ton. Might've gotten stopped by customs.

brother noname

what a fucking joke

why don't you look at the 15 people who wanted it and try and convince them otherwise

19:58

or if you don't want to do that, then just go with it

its 16 now

lol

it ended a long time ago

19:59

lodge votes are only 24 hours

19:59

Image attachment

if convincing the people who vote against you is so good then why weren't you able to get your way here

still funny how it just changed

Brother leijurv

if convincing the people who vote against you is so good then why weren't you able to get your way here

what

i am having difficulty understanding your perspective

okay ill try and lay it out again one more time

@brother noname is soooo redpill

redpill

and @Bromger Boomerang too, agree 100%

20:04

Too much to read it all but are you guys against full anonymous of the hiding votes then revealing when vote is done?

from our dm:

Negative_Entropy Today at 10:01 AM
cant y ou just like compile the best version lol

leijurv Today at 10:04 AM
i believe the current plan is this:
• during a vote, voters only see the count of how many people have voted thus far
• worshipfuls can see exactly what's going on. you can still try and make sure that anyone who voted against the group explains why and talks about it in applicant committee.
• after the vote ends it reveals the counts. it does not reveal who voted what, that burden of knowledge stays on just Normal Discussion in the committee (which you can prod forwards knowing who did what).

Negative_Entropy Today at 10:06 AM
who would vote no on this
except for the people that dont wanna change anything in any case

(the "you" in this is, obviously, entropy, in case that was unclear) (edited)

guys it's "try" anonymous voting not switch forever, try and see if it is a good idea or not

20:08

also you guys post too much

1

Brother leijurv

from our dm:

Negative_Entropy Today at 10:01 AM
cant y ou just like compile the best version lol

leijurv Today at 10:04 AM
i believe the current plan is this:
• during a vote, voters only see the count of how many people have voted thus far
• worshipfuls can see exactly what's going on. you can still try and make sure that anyone who voted against the group explains why and talks about it in applicant committee.
• after the vote ends it reveals the counts. it does not reveal who voted what, that burden of knowledge stays on just Normal Discussion in the committee (which you can prod forwards knowing who did what).

Negative_Entropy Today at 10:06 AM
who would vote no on this
except for the people that dont wanna change anything in any case

(the "you" in this is, obviously, entropy, in case that was unclear) (edited)

Why not see who voted what after???!!!

Brother Oppenheimer

Why not see who voted what after???!!!

because that defeats every point of hiding who voted what lol

20:09

what does a 24h delay accomplish?

20:09

well that's not true

20:09

it would help with bandwagoning

Yeah

SO HOW THE HELL can you tell initiates what to improve on if you cant ask the people who voted no!!!!!

Brother leijurv

why don't you look at the 15 people who wanted it and try and convince them otherwise

why would i convince people to change their vote on a vote that is over

20:10

i was gonna lay it out

Im fine with showing who voted what after or not either way but i do think the vote count should be hidden during voting

but i really dont know how much i care

Brother Oppenheimer

SO HOW THE HELL can you tell initiates what to improve on if you cant ask the people who voted no!!!!!

please read which you can prod forwards knowing who did what and

you can still try and make sure that anyone who voted against the group explains why and talks about it in applicant committee

you dont magically get info on what to tell initiates based off a vote, to be fair. We talk about them in this channel for that reason

brother noname

why would i convince people to change their vote on a vote that is over

i was speaking sorta joking-vaguely, i'm sorry i shouldn't have

20:10

rereading, it's unclear

Brother leijurv

please read which you can prod forwards knowing who did what and

you can still try and make sure that anyone who voted against the group explains why and talks about it in applicant committee

It should be mandatory! To say why you voted no!

it should be mandatory for no and yes

yes

Brother Oppenheimer

It should be mandatory! To say why you voted no!

we could add a freeform text box in the bot where you can explain why

Worshipfuls shouldn't see how people voted either

20:12

That's the only issue i have with what leijurv posted

Brother leijurv

we could add a freeform text box in the bot where you can explain why

Who do you think is to scared and frail to tell us why they voted? I dont know anyone in here like that?????

how about we go in the other direction from anonymous: make a bot that PM's the person what you voted

loll

Image attachment

broder lampa

Worshipfuls shouldn't see how people voted either

100% agreed

Brother Entropy

loll

yea but i said why im like 98 percent sure

You shouldn't need to explain why you voted a certain way

afterwards

20:13

yes

broder lampa

You shouldn't need to explain why you voted a certain way

based

Brother Oppenheimer

It should be mandatory! To say why you voted no!

we don't make decisions by consensus, we do it by numeric percentage. if you don't like that and want to change to merit-of-argument-based decision making, then that's a separate discussion

Although it should be encouraged

Brother Entropy

loll

lmfao ironic

Brother leijurv

we don't make decisions by consensus, we do it by numeric percentage. if you don't like that and want to change to merit-of-argument-based decision making, then that's a separate discussion

? Im not debating that

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797196368971694110 in other words, jordan, i fully agree that people should explain why they think they way they do, it's courteous i disagree with this whole "mandatory" bit. what precisely does mandatory mean? what happens, exactly, if you refuse?

20:15

if it's entropy nagging you in DM, then that's always been the case, and will still be

Brother Oppenheimer

? Im not debating that

you sort of are, when you say that making argument is a mandatory part of casting a vote lol

i vote no on these things because it gets way too complicated to change this stuff lol

Brother leijurv

lmfao ironic

Image attachment

yes ufo afterwards its ok lol

brother noname

Click to see attachment 🖼️

so the system worked fine, entropy prodded you in dm, and you explained

20:16

so nothing would change there

20:16

?????

how would he prod me if he cant see who voted

20:16

huh?

20:16

am i missing somegthing?

leijurv lets worshipful only see but i dont really like that too

the vocal minority vocalizes again zany_cat

zany_cat

brother noname

am i missing somegthing?

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797194771675742251 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797195558506201089 (edited)

how am i supposed to know what you guys say in dms

Brother leijurv

you sort of are, when you say that making argument is a mandatory part of casting a vote lol

No im not. If you vote no you should have a reason, no matter how stupid eg. I dont like their hair. Therefore you should have to provide said reason if the brother that nominated said initiate asks you. (edited)

brother noname

how am i supposed to know what you guys say in dms

you aren't!

Brother Oppenheimer

No im not. If you vote no you should have a reason, no matter how stupid eg. I dont like their hair. Therefore you should have to provide said reason if the brother that nominated said initiate asks you. (edited)

again, what precisely do you mean by "should have to" and what happens if you don't do it

i CANNOT WAIT for my votes to be overturned because someone doesnt like the reasoning!!!!

welcome to the masons newfriend uwu so cute ily (edited)

le trolle

Brother leijurv

again, what precisely do you mean by "should have to" and what happens if you don't do it

You keep trying to find problems where there are not any. I do not ever envision a brother declining to tell someone why they voted no, that just not what this group is.

when you say things like "should have to" and "mandatory" it sounds exactly like what someone would say if they wanted consensus based decisions a strict numeric percentage is just that, a mathematical calculation based on number of people on each side. which is not the same system as strongest-argument-wins

Brother Oppenheimer

You keep trying to find problems where there are not any. I do not ever envision a brother declining to tell someone why they voted no, that just not what this group is.

motte and bailey

Brother Oppenheimer

You keep trying to find problems where there are not any. I do not ever envision a brother declining to tell someone why they voted no, that just not what this group is.

u are implying something, backing down whenever i ask you to clarify, then repeat

leijurv thinks more in code than jordan

Brother leijurv

u are implying something, backing down whenever i ask you to clarify, then repeat

Are you insane? @Brother leijurv

i disagree with the fundamental idea that people should be required to explain their votes, or that it should be mandatory to argue their case, or any of that. votes are votes. it is courteous and nice if they explain what they think but when you start to say that they 'should have to' or whatever, it sounds no different than saying that only explained votes should count. but then i ask and you back down lol

Brother leijurv

i disagree with the fundamental idea that people should be required to explain their votes, or that it should be mandatory to argue their case, or any of that. votes are votes. it is courteous and nice if they explain what they think but when you start to say that they 'should have to' or whatever, it sounds no different than saying that only explained votes should count. but then i ask and you back down lol

THIS IS A BROTHERHOOD

Brother Oppenheimer

Are you insane? @Brother leijurv

"implying something" = using phrases like "should have to" and "mandatory" "backing down" = saying it isn't really mandatory at all and nothing happens if you choose not to provide a reason

jordan going sicko mode

it seems pretty clear to me

some people are intimmidated by the questioning some poeple don't want or can't explain their vote

20:23

hence if the vote is public

20:23

they will vote with the flow

20:23

no matter what

how do you know that

20:24

sounds like speculation (edited)

this is from experience speaking to people in the past

Brother Oppenheimer

THIS IS A BROTHERHOOD

and our system of making decisions is based on numeric percentages in which we count votes, not "explained votes". do you think that should change? you say no, but then you imply yes with "should have to" and "mandatory" lol

loud minority has huge influence in public votes

so anecdotal evidence ?

saying it happened before

brother terbin

some people are intimmidated by the questioning some poeple don't want or can't explain their vote

Yes, then they can say that, the point is people should be able to try and ask them!

then why not have a round

20:25

at the weekend

20:25

where everyone explains their vote

20:25

no matter if yes or no

even more pressure towards group conformity lol

what if i dont vote do i have to explain why i didnt vote

yes

haha

in that system

why

because if you have to explain a no

Brother leijurv

and our system of making decisions is based on numeric percentages in which we count votes, not "explained votes". do you think that should change? you say no, but then you imply yes with "should have to" and "mandatory" lol

No it should not change but you should be able to ask for the next vote so the same thing does not happen!

you should explain a non vote

what if i abstain

20:26

do i have to explain

you should say why

20:26

and if a no should be explained

Brother Oppenheimer

No it should not change but you should be able to ask for the next vote so the same thing does not happen!

i agree that you should be able to ask, in here, "can the people who voted no please explain why" i DISagree when you say that a response to that question is mandatory

yeses should be explained too

20:26

why only nos

yes

20:26

agreed

Brother leijurv

i agree that you should be able to ask, in here, "can the people who voted no please explain why" i DISagree when you say that a response to that question is mandatory

Some people dont read all the messages/ miss some!

that's why the weekend is perfect

Brother Oppenheimer

Some people dont read all the messages/ miss some!

LOL

20:27

still a moot point because the current thought is that entropy can still poke people to explain their position

20:27

or do we need more than one person dming them for them to read the message

visible to some is weird

Brother leijurv

or do we need more than one person dming them for them to read the message

ALL The people that are effected by the vote should be able to! (edited)

not "to explain their position in dm", i meant "to explain their position 'in public', in this channel" sorry (edited)

back in my days worshipfuls woulda just tried anonymous voting then had a vote on if we should do it or not

20:30

smh

they would make the vote for if we should try anon voting anon laughing_cat

laughing_cat

20:31

we should've done that actually

were gonna try it next week and later re-evaluate all our options properly ok

@Brother leijurv I think you're taking the idea that people want explanations for 'no' votes to mean that they want to decide on the validity of those reasonings. That's not what it is at all. The purpose of asking brothers to give reasons for their vote is because every mason decides on initiates based on their own criteria. When nominating a friend to the group, brothers ought to actively help their initiate to participate in the group in ways that fulfill the other brothers' criteria. If an initiate isn't in vc enough, or isn't in vc at the right times, or is in vc too much, or talks too much, or makes annoying jokes, or has an annoying name, or is a brony... Whatever the reasons for why people are voting no, it is so helpful to know those reasons so that a brother can help their initiate friend make the best impression, or they can at least understand why their initiate got declined. Knowing why we do and don't choose initiates helps us pick better ones and prepare them better to get off to a good start in the group. Transparency of voting isn't intended to shame brothers into changing their votes. Transparency of voting helps us each understand what the others are looking for and what they're deciding based on. (edited)

thistbh

3

minecraftheart

1

Brother Entropy

were gonna try it next week and later re-evaluate all our options properly ok

I guess let's try it, but I don't think we'll get a good feel for how anonymous voting works out for us until we have a vote that fails. If the vote passes, no one will think about who voted no or why, but if it unexpectedly fails, I think there will certainly be confusion and frustration. (edited)

Bromger Boomerang

@Brother leijurv I think you're taking the idea that people want explanations for 'no' votes to mean that they want to decide on the validity of those reasonings. That's not what it is at all. The purpose of asking brothers to give reasons for their vote is because every mason decides on initiates based on their own criteria. When nominating a friend to the group, brothers ought to actively help their initiate to participate in the group in ways that fulfill the other brothers' criteria. If an initiate isn't in vc enough, or isn't in vc at the right times, or is in vc too much, or talks too much, or makes annoying jokes, or has an annoying name, or is a brony... Whatever the reasons for why people are voting no, it is so helpful to know those reasons so that a brother can help their initiate friend make the best impression, or they can at least understand why their initiate got declined. Knowing why we do and don't choose initiates helps us pick better ones and prepare them better to get off to a good start in the group. Transparency of voting isn't intended to shame brothers into changing their votes. Transparency of voting helps us each understand what the others are looking for and what they're deciding based on. (edited)

agree with every word you absolutely should explain what you think, but i won't say anything stronger than that. so i was taking issue with the idea of it being mandatory / required. in other words: i was not "taking the idea that people want explanations for 'no' votes to mean that they want to decide on the validity", i was taking issue with a very specific thing which is that jordan suggested those attached explanations should be mandatory, and I was pushing on what that requirement would really end up meaning. except the last two sentences actually – i'm not so sure it matters what it's "intended" to do? i also don't understand why transparency is required in order to have these discussions: like, in the spirit of brotherhoodly cooperation, people should explain what they think. if someone refuses to do so, then we don't get to hear why they think that. this would not change. both today, and in this hypothetical future, people vote no, and if they don't explain why publicly entropy pokes them in DM to do so. they could still ignore that DM, in both events. there is something that's being overlooked with that conclusion about transparency: we both clearly agree that people should vote with how they personally believe. but non-anonymous voting decreases that quality (for many mentioned reasons, like not wanting to be put over the fire (so to speak) of people jumping on you for not voting how they like). so, i have a hard time understanding those last two sentences. it sounds like you're trying to draw a line between "shaming" and "just asking questions". i don't really think this difference holds up, or even "is real". perhaps instead of "shame" the word could be "influence".

22:30

rephrasing: if there is a gap in the understood facts of the matter (such as the example that was given in lodge of someone being active in different time zones), we don't need a public vote in order to resolve it. if that might be an issue, a nominator might simply explain that in applicant committee. someone who thinks it's an issue can just ask "why do i never see them in vc", and get an answer. i don't see why this process of understanding the decision that's before us requires public knowledge of who voted what. it just requires that we discuss the applicant, like we always have done. re-rephrasing: once we all know the facts of the matter, the vote is a matter of personal opinion / decision. "do i want them in the group". that isn't something that requires transparency in order to be faithful and accurate, quite the opposite. people behave closer to their true selves while anonymous. when it isn't anonymous, you get stuff along the lines of https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591647666421891103 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591846302602493956 where the argument isn't about the scenario, but rather about that difference of opinion (in this case, how much interaction (vc) is necessary) (and still, on top of all that, i'm agreeing with the compromise which is that entropy could see who's doin what and poke them privately if need be to explain their thoughts publicly)

22:30

(also, a hypothetical was brought up which is what if someone consistently votes against the group, such as to be obstinate, with the idea that anonymous voting would makes this easier / more attainable. i don't think that would happen, rather the opposite. if you vote in bad faith, you don't get the attention of people knowing that you did what you did. on top of which, worshipfuls could still take a look if it becomes a problem. and finally, setting up a group to be a strict numeric democracy means that you sacrifice the ability to discard bad arguments. in other words, if someone is voting with no good reason, then it is what it is. i think that is a reasonable tradeoff)

oh no we're in the textwalling stage

I abstain from reading this all

abstain_neutral

3

I didn't read those ngl

22:39

how tf did u guys not hit 2k chars

tbh

can someone give me a tldr @Brother leijurv

ur mom

brother noname

can someone give me a tldr @Brother leijurv

the good parts of transparency (discussion, understanding) can happen even in anonymous voting by just talking to your fellow brothers in good faith (edited)

22:40

even if that fails, entropy can prod you to do so

22:40

there's your tl;dr

same words but I'm glad we all agree now

22:41

just different words

@Brother leijurv did you do high school debate

no but i edit wikipedia

oh

22:42

:(

Just gonna point out that if we'd always been using anonymous voting, Pint and Brony would not be in the group. I personally reached out to 'no' votes for both of them, not to pressure people into changing their votes, but to find out why they voted as they did, present my testimonial for why I thought the person was right for the group, and to personally bridge the gap between the initiate and the brother that claims top not know them well enough. I set up a line of communication between the no-voters and the initiates. From there, everyone was free to decide for themselves. The votes passed. Now, I don't think anyone felt that I forced their hand and pressured them into flopping. I certainly hope no one feels that way. I didn't di it in bad faith. I did it because I felt that both of those guys deserved a full consideration and I wanted to make sure that every brother had the chance to do that.

thistbh

1

i had some friends in high school debate

22:42

it was pretty cring, seemed

i do high school debate

22:42

it is

22:42

the 1v1 lincoln douglas debate is super retarded everyone is weird

Bromger Boomerang

Just gonna point out that if we'd always been using anonymous voting, Pint and Brony would not be in the group. I personally reached out to 'no' votes for both of them, not to pressure people into changing their votes, but to find out why they voted as they did, present my testimonial for why I thought the person was right for the group, and to personally bridge the gap between the initiate and the brother that claims top not know them well enough. I set up a line of communication between the no-voters and the initiates. From there, everyone was free to decide for themselves. The votes passed. Now, I don't think anyone felt that I forced their hand and pressured them into flopping. I certainly hope no one feels that way. I didn't di it in bad faith. I did it because I felt that both of those guys deserved a full consideration and I wanted to make sure that every brother had the chance to do that.

not to pressure people into changing their votes present my testimonial for why I thought the person was right for the group

it sounds like you were pressuring them by trying to convince them why the person was right for the group

same with policy debate

people (re)act very different when you ask them directly / in dms lol strong tactic and leijurv thinks its op https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/032/961/He's_Too_Dangerous_To_Be_Left_Alive_Banner.jpg (edited)

Embedded image

yes

i use it all the time

22:45

:S

i think that publicly making a statement in this channel is reasonable, but reaching out to people in dms to bug them is not

Talking directly to your friend and personally advocating for someone you like to be in the group is OP? Seems like basic interpersonal communication to me.\

in the context of a vote, it is OP

22:48

yet again, having a discussion about an initiate is perfectly valid

22:48

it's not like this channel would go away??

22:48

you just don't need specifically the knowledge of who voted what in the final tally in order to have had a fruitful interpersonal communicative discussion before that vote!

22:49

Talking directly to your friend and personally advocating for someone you like to be in the group is OP

yes. because that's trying to privately influence their vote (edited)

Discussions in this channel are often not read by the people who would benefit most from the information.

Image attachment

Bromger Boomerang

Discussions in this channel are often not read by the people who would benefit most from the information.

its almost as if, right after that, ufo asked for a tldr and i gave it

22:51

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797235557536890890 again, this is only bad if it's within the context of you knowing how they voted, and them knowing that you want them to change that if you're reaching out before any vote has happened to ask them what they think, or talk to them about the candidate, etc etc etc i don't really see a problem

Brother leijurv

Talking directly to your friend and personally advocating for someone you like to be in the group is OP

yes. because that's trying to privately influence their vote (edited)

More like trying to influence their opinion, not their vote. No one is asking for anyone to vote yes on someone they dislike. But if Something can be said that changes their opinion and makes them like the initiate, then the vote is still legitimate and everyone benefits. (edited)

leijurv would disagree because whoever uses this tactic on a large scale can affect a lot

Brother Entropy

i use it all the time

thistbh

Bromger Boomerang

More like trying to influence their opinion, not their vote. No one is asking for anyone to vote yes on someone they dislike. But if Something can be said that changes their opinion and makes them like the initiate, then the vote is still legitimate and everyone benefits. (edited)

that changes their opinion and makes them like the initiate, then the vote is still legitimate

no, it's not. why do you think that?

22:53

want to reiterate:

again, this is only bad if it's within the context of you knowing how they voted, and them knowing that you want them to change that

Because the voter still voted based on what they want... How would that not be legit?

Bromger Boomerang

More like trying to influence their opinion, not their vote. No one is asking for anyone to vote yes on someone they dislike. But if Something can be said that changes their opinion and makes them like the initiate, then the vote is still legitimate and everyone benefits. (edited)

the difference between discussing an initiate, and trying to influence a vote, is if there is a vote that is public/non-anonymous and you know how they voted and you don't like it and you want them to change it and they know you want them to change it

Bromger Boomerang

Because the voter still voted based on what they want... How would that not be legit?

coercion exists?? decisions that in other contexts would be valid and innocent can become coercive depending on the environment they are made in??

this is way more amusing here than in voice

So political campaigning in runoff elections makes all votes illegitimate?

(honestly i would say so) i wish none of that existed (edited)

Bromger Boomerang

So political campaigning in runoff elections makes all votes illegitimate?

you missed the "is public/non-anonymous" and the "know how they voted" in https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797236853643804692

Brother leijurv

that changes their opinion and makes them like the initiate, then the vote is still legitimate

no, it's not. why do you think that?

there is no harm in presenting some1 with new information - as long as it isn't false. if it causes some1 to change their opinion, that is up to the beholder

that's not true pint

22:56

if

22:56

the vote

22:56

is non-anonymous

22:56

i will take people's opinions into account, if i can vote freely

22:56

if they'll know how i voted and could, say, hold a grudge that i didn't "hear them out" or "give the initiate a chance"

22:57

then i'm not voting freely

22:57

it's coerced because they'll know what i did and don't like it lol

22:57

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797237272432345109 things like campaigning, candidate ads on tv, etc etc are not the same because the candidate won't ever know what you voted, it's your own personal decision based on all the such campaigning and debates that you've seen while making up your mind lol

Brother Pint

there is no harm in presenting some1 with new information - as long as it isn't false. if it causes some1 to change their opinion, that is up to the beholder

walk into bank present new information to bank teller "i have a gun and want you to give me some money" this new information is true the teller changes their opinion on whether or not to give me money this change of opinion was up to the beholder the teller is fired for giving people money through their own opinions

22:59

(this is a joke)

23:00

(but is meant to illustrate that "presenting information" isn't an objectively morally-neutral act, if the information has consequences. if you know how someone voted, them presenting you with "i want you to vote this way and i'll know if you do so or not" has a consequence on your relationship with them)

Brother leijurv

(but is meant to illustrate that "presenting information" isn't an objectively morally-neutral act, if the information has consequences. if you know how someone voted, them presenting you with "i want you to vote this way and i'll know if you do so or not" has a consequence on your relationship with them)

if you're so offended by some1 having a particular opinion and holding to it after new info is presented then idk what to tell such a person aside from grow some skin (edited)

23:03

and that "you're" is not specificall you (edited)

23:03

just to clarify

23:04

just anyone

agreed

Brother Pint

if you're so offended by some1 having a particular opinion and holding to it after new info is presented then idk what to tell such a person aside from grow some skin (edited)

not what i'm saying at all, the "offended" part is misunderstanding who the "victim" (so to speak) is of this imaginary coercion

23:05

if A wants to influence B's vote, i don't care if A gets offended by B being obstinate

23:05

why would i?

23:05

yes A should grow some skin

the teller is fired for giving people money through their own opinions

also, i don't mean to be petty and pick apart a metaphor, but firing a teller bc they were threatened with their life over some paper is idioyic and stupid

23:06

and lawsuit worthy

If someone reached out to me about an initiate that I voted no on, I would explain why I voted how I did. If they presented me with new information and it didn't change my opinion, I would just... tell them that. I would again explain my justification for my no vote. That way they would know why I voted. They would know that they'd done everything they could, and I would know that I considered all of the facts.

Brother Pint

the teller is fired for giving people money through their own opinions

also, i don't mean to be petty and pick apart a metaphor, but firing a teller bc they were threatened with their life over some paper is idioyic and stupid

they were threatened? no they were just presented with true new information that someone wanted money

Bromger Boomerang

If someone reached out to me about an initiate that I voted no on, I would explain why I voted how I did. If they presented me with new information and it didn't change my opinion, I would just... tell them that. I would again explain my justification for my no vote. That way they would know why I voted. They would know that they'd done everything they could, and I would know that I considered all of the facts.

why does this scenario need to happen? you're treating it like a necessary aspect of open communication. maybe instead this discussion could happen in public, in the applicant committee?

Brother leijurv

they were threatened? no they were just presented with true new information that someone wanted money

regardless of whether or not there actually was a weapon present, my point still stands

Brother Pint

regardless of whether or not there actually was a weapon present, my point still stands

what's special about a "threat"?

Leif, you know that telling a bank teller that you want the money in the context you described would be a threat. Don't play technicalities here. If a mason were reaching out to people making indirect and veiled threats, that would obviously be bad and should not be allowed. That would amount to harming a brother imo.

Bromger Boomerang

Leif, you know that telling a bank teller that you want the money in the context you described would be a threat. Don't play technicalities here. If a mason were reaching out to people making indirect and veiled threats, that would obviously be bad and should not be allowed. That would amount to harming a brother imo.

what if the threat is 1000x lower stakes?

23:10

if i know how you vote, and i'm asking you to vote a certain way, then if you don't do it I will know

23:10

correct?

Bromger Boomerang

Leif, you know that telling a bank teller that you want the money in the context you described would be a threat. Don't play technicalities here. If a mason were reaching out to people making indirect and veiled threats, that would obviously be bad and should not be allowed. That would amount to harming a brother imo.

you're sailing right past the argument. i'm suggesting that both are implicit threats, and you're taking it as if i'm suggesting that neither is a threat

i give up. this is actually asinine. people are allowed to have opinions and should be allowed to share them here- regardless of the outcome of such and especially in the confines of a closed group of people who know each other as more than strangers. even more so when pertaining to the possibility of letting in a new person as a member who will have a further effect on the group and its well-being in the future. (edited)

Brother Pint

i give up. this is actually asinine. people are allowed to have opinions and should be allowed to share them here- regardless of the outcome of such and especially in the confines of a closed group of people who know each other as more than strangers. even more so when pertaining to the possibility of letting in a new person as a member who will have a further effect on the group and its well-being in the future. (edited)

i agree pint. but why do you need to specifically DM someone who isn't voting the way you like? why isn't it good enough to make your argument in public, to everyone?

Okay, yes. Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with, along with the implication that you'll know if they don't do it would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move. I would feel fine calling someone out for that. Has anyone ever done that? Is that a problem we have here?

Bromger Boomerang

Okay, yes. Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with, along with the implication that you'll know if they don't do it would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move. I would feel fine calling someone out for that. Has anyone ever done that? Is that a problem we have here?

so, given that votes are public, you will know if they don't do it. so we don't need that second implication part. it's always true

23:14

so in a non-anonymous voting system:

Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move

23:14

I would agree with that ^ rephrasing (edited)

Brother leijurv

i agree pint. but why do you need to specifically DM someone who isn't voting the way you like? why isn't it good enough to make your argument in public, to everyone?

ok, from that perspective, i can better see what you're arguing

yea

23:15

i don't think we need to single out people, dm them / ping them / whatever, if we don't like how they vote

23:15

i think it's more or less a threat

23:15

we can accomplish communication and consensus without needing to know how people vote

Brother leijurv

so in a non-anonymous voting system:

Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move

Yes that rephrasing is good.

23:16

again, Is that a problem we have here?

not currently afaik

Bromger Boomerang

Yes that rephrasing is good.

i think that if you dm someone asking them why they voted a certain way, the implication is that you'd like them to vote differently. (again, only in our current scenario https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797236853643804692)

unless some1 want's to reference your defense of Brony and i

sorry g2g for a bit

sadly I dont think it will matter for much longer

23:19

https://www.tomorrowtides.com/discordtobeshutdownby20222.html

Discord to be shut down by 2022

After receiving multiple lawsuits and complaints over issues about child safety on the platform, Discord CEO Jason Citron announced his resignation.

me when looking at leijurvs arguments

Image attachment

Bromger Boomerang

Yes that rephrasing is good.

the key is that the statement stops being true in an anonymous system lol

23:22

you won't know how they voted

23:22

free discussion happens

23:22

with no coercion possible lol

Brother leijurv

i think that if you dm someone asking them why they voted a certain way, the implication is that you'd like them to vote differently. (again, only in our current scenario https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797236853643804692)

Wanting them to vote differently and asking them to vote against their opinion are two different things. Anyone who nominates an initiate obviously wants every vote to be a yes vote. They want every brother to get to know and like the initiate. As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the goal of getting the masons to like their initiate. We want to like eachother, no? We want to bring in people we like, no? We want to like the people we bring in, no?

utopia

Bromger Boomerang

Wanting them to vote differently and asking them to vote against their opinion are two different things. Anyone who nominates an initiate obviously wants every vote to be a yes vote. They want every brother to get to know and like the initiate. As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the goal of getting the masons to like their initiate. We want to like eachother, no? We want to bring in people we like, no? We want to like the people we bring in, no?

that's right. it becomes different when you single someone out, knowing they voted against what you wanted, such as by dming them or pinging them etc. and there's undertones of it even without that, in any non-anonymous system

Bromger Boomerang

Wanting them to vote differently and asking them to vote against their opinion are two different things. Anyone who nominates an initiate obviously wants every vote to be a yes vote. They want every brother to get to know and like the initiate. As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the goal of getting the masons to like their initiate. We want to like eachother, no? We want to bring in people we like, no? We want to like the people we bring in, no?

As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the goal of getting the masons to like their initiate.

really? can they, for example, DM someone who voted no and ask them why? i thought:

Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move

and https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797242392490410065

Except if I don't like an initiate, then someone reaches out and convinces me to like the initiate, they've really done nothing bad. I now have a friend where I didn't before. I now can vote Yes and mean it. Nothing about that situation is threatening.

Brother leijurv

As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the goal of getting the masons to like their initiate.

really? can they, for example, DM someone who voted no and ask them why? i thought:

Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move

and https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797242392490410065

To like their initiate, not vote yes on...

Bromger Boomerang

Except if I don't like an initiate, then someone reaches out and convinces me to like the initiate, they've really done nothing bad. I now have a friend where I didn't before. I now can vote Yes and mean it. Nothing about that situation is threatening.

That is a perfect rose-coloured-glasses way of seeing that interaction which can be helpful in seeing the position of someone who is for transparency. It is however, important to see the darker more nefarious outcomes possible to be able to understand the gamut of potential outcomes.

Bromger Boomerang

Except if I don't like an initiate, then someone reaches out and convinces me to like the initiate, they've really done nothing bad. I now have a friend where I didn't before. I now can vote Yes and mean it. Nothing about that situation is threatening.

i'd love it if this were true. but in a non-anonymous system, it isn't. if someone reaches out to you and convinces you to like the initiate and then vote yes, then that's an implicit threat as you agreed earlier if the system is non-anonymous

Asking for someone to change their vote to something they disagree with would amount to a threat and would be a pretty dick move

(edited)

ßrother LordNo.

That is a perfect rose-coloured-glasses way of seeing that interaction which can be helpful in seeing the position of someone who is for transparency. It is however, important to see the darker more nefarious outcomes possible to be able to understand the gamut of potential outcomes.

that's another way of putting it, yes

and if we can all accept the possibility of both happening, is it acceptable to lose the rose-colour variant to protect those who may be impacted by the more negative potentials?

and i still haven't heard why non-anonymity is needed for this scenario, and i haven't heard why this argument in favor of the initiate couldn't be made in public to everyone

23:28

why do you want/need to single people out in dms

23:28

and why is it necessary to know if they did what you wanted or not?

23:28

what would be lost if you could no longer single people out? i say nothing

23:28

good faith discussion in here can still happen, the channel isn't going anywhere

Again, I don't know of anyone ever asking a brother to vote in a way contrary to how they feel. More like we've had people trying to get them to feel differently about the innitiate. Often that fails and when it does, it's not the fault of the voter or the advocate. It just is what it is. If brothers are holding grudges for that, that what needs to get checked.

Again, I don't know of anyone ever asking a brother to vote in a way contrary to how they feel.

entropy does it all the time https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797234410687692860 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797234499317792788

He asks people to vote yes on an initiate they don't want?

Again, I don't know of anyone ever asking a brother to vote in a way contrary to how they feel.

changing someone's mind to a yes is a different concept if you'll know their vote or not. if you don't know their vote, they can listen to your argument and accept or reject it. if you will know, they have to bear that in mind and know that you'll know what they did

Bromger Boomerang

He asks people to vote yes on an initiate they don't want?

moai

no, in his own words, "people (re)act very different when you ask them directly / in dms lol" and "strong tactic"

23:31

when someone votes against the group, he dms them

23:31

and they straighten up

23:31

and switch their vote to what the group thinks

23:32

(also keep in mind that i trust in entropy enough that i agreed to the compromise where this literally still happens, but it's just him lol)

If they have a reason to vote no, and they feel that reason is valid, then Entropy asking them why they voted no shouldn't be a problem.

No True Scotsman fallacy (edited)

Bromger Boomerang

If they have a reason to vote no, and they feel that reason is valid, then Entropy asking them why they voted no shouldn't be a problem.

"the teller should just ignore the threat"

23:34

(we agreed that that was a threat implicitly)

If they vote no and they themselves don't feel that their justification is valid then why did they vote no? They should straighten up and take the process seriously.

Bromger Boomerang

If they vote no and they themselves don't feel that their justification is valid then why did they vote no? They should straighten up and take the process seriously.

And we're back to where we started

23:35

Devious false equivalence between "don't want to get publicly shamed" and "don't feel their justification is valid"

23:35

Nice one

23:35

Makes it sound as if they themselves don't believe in their vote and are just being bad faith (edited)

@Brother leijurv It feels like you think us brothers should not be able to talk openly to each other and discuss topics and potential members of the group. You make it sound like we are trying to talk to the random general public who you dont know and influence their vote when in fact we are like parliament we all know each other and talk to each other, we disagree on some things and can have civil conversations about them, parliament in the uk everyone knows what MP voted and then they can talk to members that voted down their law etc. and find out what said MP wanted changed so the vote could pass the next time. This is how it should be in here when we all know each other and are friends, if another mason was pressuring someone to change their vote in my opinion it would be classed as harming another brother and should be delt with, but that dose not mean we should all stop being friends and stop talking about our opinions.

Image attachment

jordan writes an essay and is just overruled by lamp posting a bird pic

you call that an essay?

23:40

pffft

Brother leijurv

Makes it sound as if they themselves don't believe in their vote and are just being bad faith (edited)

That's exactly what I meant. The only time people should be asked or expected to change their vote is when they themselves don't believe in their justification, when they are voting in bad faith. Again, I don't think that's really something that happens much here. People who vote no usually have some reason for doing it that they feel is valid. Shaming someone for not agreeing with their reasons, or telling them to change their vote despite their opinions, isn't cool and shouldn't be allowed. Making everyhing anonymous would prevent that, sure, but it would also prevent people from making good-faith cases to each other and advocating personally for the initiate to the people who have the ability to decide the outcome..

On my phone for a bit, can't write an essay for the next little while :)

Reposting Jordan's "essay" because it is exactly what I'm trying to say. @Brother Leijurv It feels like you think us brothers should not be able to talk openly to each other and discuss topics and potential members of the group. You make it sound like we are trying to talk to the random general public who you dont know and influence their vote when in fact we are like parliament we all know each other and talk to each other, we disagree on some things and can have civil conversations about them, parliament in the uk everyone knows what MP voted and then they can talk to members that voted down their law etc. and find out what said MP wanted changed so the vote could pass the next time. This is how it should be in here when we all know each other and are friends, if another mason was pressuring someone to change their vote in my opinion it would be classed as harming another brother and should be delt with, but that dose not mean we should all stop being friends and stop talking about our opinions.

Brother Oppenheimer

@Brother leijurv It feels like you think us brothers should not be able to talk openly to each other and discuss topics and potential members of the group. You make it sound like we are trying to talk to the random general public who you dont know and influence their vote when in fact we are like parliament we all know each other and talk to each other, we disagree on some things and can have civil conversations about them, parliament in the uk everyone knows what MP voted and then they can talk to members that voted down their law etc. and find out what said MP wanted changed so the vote could pass the next time. This is how it should be in here when we all know each other and are friends, if another mason was pressuring someone to change their vote in my opinion it would be classed as harming another brother and should be delt with, but that dose not mean we should all stop being friends and stop talking about our opinions.

it feels like you think

Can you judge me by my words and not by what you feel like I think? I've said a million times that open discussion is good, such as in this channel. How is singling someone out and dming them open discussion? Dms aren't open.

parliament

We aren't representatives. That analogy might work better to worshipfuls?

if another Mason was pressuring

I believe singling someone out, such as dming them and asking why they voted no, counts as pressuring, if it's in the context of a non anonymous vote.

friends and talking about opinions

That should absolutely happen. Why do we need to be able to single out the dissenters and dm them in order to do this?

23:47

be back in a little while have fun

you could just agree to disagree

that's all fine and fair with me until i realized this could become a permanent system in here (edited)

>'Can you judge me by my words and not by what you feel like I think?' Those feeling come from reading what you wrote. You don't want us to know who votes no because you don't think those no votes should be discussed. Openly or otherwise. >'We aren't representatives. That analogy might work better to worshipfuls?' Technically true, but each of us does represent the group. Each of our votes impacts everyone else. With such a small pool of voters, the individual impact of each vote does make them more like representative votes than true democratic votes. >'I believe singling someone out, such as dming them and asking why they voted no, counts as pressuring, if it's in the context of a non anonymous vote.' Singling out is a strong way to say personally talking to your FRIEND. >'Why do we need to be able to single out the dissenters and dm them in order to do this?' Because personal communication is far more efficient and impactful than public communitacion. (edited)

redpill

1

bluepill

1

Brother leijurv

it feels like you think

Can you judge me by my words and not by what you feel like I think? I've said a million times that open discussion is good, such as in this channel. How is singling someone out and dming them open discussion? Dms aren't open.

parliament

We aren't representatives. That analogy might work better to worshipfuls?

if another Mason was pressuring

I believe singling someone out, such as dming them and asking why they voted no, counts as pressuring, if it's in the context of a non anonymous vote.

friends and talking about opinions

That should absolutely happen. Why do we need to be able to single out the dissenters and dm them in order to do this?

It just seems like you are coming up with "solutions" to "problems" that dont exist. If anyone else could say of an occasion that this has occurred and how they felt pressured into changing there vote might be helpful? Just feels like you are trying to create conflict by changing our ways to fix something that is not broken?

yes

1

1

^

" Because personal communication is far more efficient and impactful than public communitacion"

and more personal because we are FRIENDS

occasion this has occured

As I sent earlier: https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591647666421891103 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591846302602493956

Brother Oppenheimer

It just seems like you are coming up with "solutions" to "problems" that dont exist. If anyone else could say of an occasion that this has occurred and how they felt pressured into changing there vote might be helpful? Just feels like you are trying to create conflict by changing our ways to fix something that is not broken?

I'm not trying to create conflict, the vote to try this passed, and I've just been responding to continued disagreement with the idea

Brother leijurv

occasion this has occured

As I sent earlier: https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591647666421891103 https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591846302602493956

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591647666421891103 THIS IS WHAT ABSTAIN IS FOR!

redpill

1

1

personal communication is more impactful

If you dig deep into exactly what this means and why it's the case, you'll see why I don't support it (in this very narrow and specific circumstance)

00:00

Every reason why it's more "impactful" singling someone out and dming them, to get them to perhaps change their mind in a non anonymous vote, is a bad reason (/ manipulative / coercive / whatever word you want to use) (edited)

Brother leijurv

I'm not trying to create conflict, the vote to try this passed, and I've just been responding to continued disagreement with the idea

Yes the vote passed, im not disputing that, I am trying to explain why I voted no. and hopfuly change your mind.

lol Jordan'\

00:01

YESS

Brother Oppenheimer

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/591647666421891103 THIS IS WHAT ABSTAIN IS FOR!

Abstain, or just not voting at all, would have equally sufficed

Brother leijurv

Abstain, or just not voting at all, would have equally sufficed

yes, but with abstain you know they are still active and have not ignored the vote

I guess I've never considered reaching out to a friend to talk about something you disagree on to be manipulative or coercive. I just consider it... friendship

redpill

1

Brother Oppenheimer

yes, but with abstain you know they are still active and have not ignored the vote

Or, you could be a big boy and say so in here, why do you need a button to click? Isn't this about interpersonal communication

A lot of the 'explaining why I voted' a certain way or 'expressing my opinion' has manifested as direct responses to quote by Leijurv. Imo this is less about expressions your position or feeling, and more about arguing specific points.

Bromger Boomerang

I guess I've never considered reaching out to a friend to talk about something you disagree on to be manipulative or coercive. I just consider it... friendship

maybe try again? I said "in this specific and narrow circumstance..." relating to a vote

Bromger Boomerang

I guess I've never considered reaching out to a friend to talk about something you disagree on to be manipulative or coercive. I just consider it... friendship

I don't disagree with this message, but it isn't arguing against anything I believe so...

Bromger Boomerang

I guess I've never considered reaching out to a friend to talk about something you disagree on to be manipulative or coercive. I just consider it... friendship

HOLY SHIT THIS.

Brother leijurv

Or, you could be a big boy and say so in here, why do you need a button to click? Isn't this about interpersonal communication

Leijurv, I thought you where in support of non binary people? Why do you want me to be binary? Why do you want me to be forced to live as one or the other?

This specific situation where you and your friend disagree on something, you know you disagree, and you want to discuss it and see if you can agree... That's manipulative?

Brother Oppenheimer

Leijurv, I thought you where in support of non binary people? Why do you want me to be binary? Why do you want me to be forced to live as one or the other?

Because sadly we set this up as a numeric democracy where we count "yes" and "no"

00:05

Nonbinary people can explain their pronouns in here

ooooooooffffff

Brother leijurv

Because sadly we set this up as a numeric democracy where we count "yes" and "no"

why cant there be an other?

there is a lot of miscommunication here

Bromger Boomerang

This specific situation where you and your friend disagree on something, you know you disagree, and you want to discuss it and see if you can agree... That's manipulative?

If it's part of an important vote, and everyone will know who voted what, and tensions are high because it's accepting a new person into the group, and you go and dm someone why they voted a certain way, then yes it's coercive to do that respective to the vote

Brother Oppenheimer

why cant there be an other?

Because our group's decision making doesn't count an other

Ok... This is out there, but what if it wasn't binary? What if instead of voting yes or no, we just give a 1-10 ranking and the average has to be over a certain threshold? just a thought (edited)

Based

abstain_neutral

1

Brother leijurv

Because our group's decision making doesn't count an other

Yes it dose, it wont if you take it away #longlive abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

does it?

Bromger Boomerang

Ok... This is out there, but what if it wasn't binary? What if instead of voting yes or no, we just give a 1-10 ranking and the average has to be over a certain threshold? just a thought (edited)

That sounds intriguing tell me more.... (edited)

I can see where Leijurv is coming from. He has felt that some people have been pressured in the past and wishes to stop that in the future. He feels as though an anonymous vote would help that. I agree that it could potentially help that and dont want people to feel pressured. I can see where Boomerang is coming from. As a group of friends we should all feel safe enough to engage in open communications. We should all feel secure enough to reach out to each other and talk about votes. This outreach should not have to be seen as coercion or other negative intentions. You believe that a public vote affords the opportunity for more open communication among friends. I think I can see where Jordan is coming from. He seems to be concerned that more agitation of the current system is unnecessary and causes arguments like these. Why fix it if it aint broke? I totally get this too and worry that openning cans of worms like these can totally cause big infighting.

redpill

2

00:10

these are all equally valid feelings and opinions, and no amount of disputing individual facts will change that.

Brother Oppenheimer

That sounds intriguing tell me more.... (edited)

abstain would be the same as just voting the threshold average. It wouldn't weigh the vote positively or nevatively, but it would push the average slightly towards the middle.

but disputing individual facts may lead to decision exhaustion and emotional overwhelm. In my experience the result of this ends up being frustration and ad hominem attacks. I would hate for this to go sour because of unnecessary details

Bromger Boomerang

abstain would be the same as just voting the threshold average. It wouldn't weigh the vote positively or nevatively, but it would push the average slightly towards the middle.

it sounds good

I wonder how long it took to develop systems like the American electoral system etc.

It's still being developed.

so much thought, effort, consideration, etc, must go into developing systems like these

00:16

haha fair enough

we had an update recently that introduced a lot of bugs

00:17

still workin gon it

I really hope the way this election ran doesnt become the standard. We can do so much better.

systems so intricate that the use of them calls into question whether they are perfect yet or not.

um... in here or in the US (edited)

US

ahh

I do worry about the precedence that has been created this election

00:18

oh shit #general-20210704

00:18

let;s continue this there

ßrother LordNo.

I can see where Leijurv is coming from. He has felt that some people have been pressured in the past and wishes to stop that in the future. He feels as though an anonymous vote would help that. I agree that it could potentially help that and dont want people to feel pressured. I can see where Boomerang is coming from. As a group of friends we should all feel safe enough to engage in open communications. We should all feel secure enough to reach out to each other and talk about votes. This outreach should not have to be seen as coercion or other negative intentions. You believe that a public vote affords the opportunity for more open communication among friends. I think I can see where Jordan is coming from. He seems to be concerned that more agitation of the current system is unnecessary and causes arguments like these. Why fix it if it aint broke? I totally get this too and worry that openning cans of worms like these can totally cause big infighting.

Im not sure what you mean by "engage open communications", do you count dms as open?

00:20

I'd say dms are "behind closed doors" and all else being equal I'd very much prefer open communications over that

Holy shit that’s a lot of messages

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797255745493401631

00:31

For those of you coming to this thread, don't bother reading it. We argued about the voting system for a long ass time. We still don't agree on things but all arguments were summed up by @ßrother LordNo. quite well in this message. We will begin trying anonymous voting next week and we'll learn and adapt as we sort out the bugs. Cheers

imagine clicking to the beginning of this, reading everything and then getting to booms message

megatroll

5

Yeah I didn’t read it when I saw it was 400+ msgs

00:33

Thanks for summary

Brother Entropy

imagine clicking to the beginning of this, reading everything and then getting to booms message

ahahahahahahahahah

I just did that

00:45

Wtf i love Boom now

00:45

What a based and level headed message (edited)

ßrother LordNo.

I can see where Leijurv is coming from. He has felt that some people have been pressured in the past and wishes to stop that in the future. He feels as though an anonymous vote would help that. I agree that it could potentially help that and dont want people to feel pressured. I can see where Boomerang is coming from. As a group of friends we should all feel safe enough to engage in open communications. We should all feel secure enough to reach out to each other and talk about votes. This outreach should not have to be seen as coercion or other negative intentions. You believe that a public vote affords the opportunity for more open communication among friends. I think I can see where Jordan is coming from. He seems to be concerned that more agitation of the current system is unnecessary and causes arguments like these. Why fix it if it aint broke? I totally get this too and worry that openning cans of worms like these can totally cause big infighting.

we could also make an optional anonymity which fixes both

01:01

I read boomerangs message first

iron really didnt understand a word from the other talk with leijurv the other day was discussed here god dont start it again https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/566749523666534402/795404949001338881 (edited)

no I did

01:46

but as you can see both extremes dont work. so that optional thing is the best compromise

01:46

even tho it still has advantages when you try to exploit it

Thanks @ßrother LordNo. for that epic summation

03:06

saved me a bit of scrolling

03:09

I would like to put this out there: The fact that a few people are unwilling to TRY something considering you have only rough estimates on how it could turn out, is concerning. Just try it. If it doesn't work, and the problems persist, scrap it. It's honestly that easy folks. The technology is in place already.

2

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797255123222659112 i like this idea

i was under the impression that this was inpleneted as a permanent thing. i'm all for giving it a try

Definitely not permanent lmao

and even then, we can still ~~argue~~ debate whether or nit we should keep it and why

exactly

03:13

but that debate should be left for after we've tried it

Brother Pint

i was under the impression that this was inpleneted as a permanent thing. i'm all for giving it a try

Image attachment

1

yes, i see

03:13

and this recation was quite earlier in the evening

03:14

not just now (edited)

?

03:14

sorry idk what recation means

03:15

reaction*?

1Charlie3

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/797255123222659112 i like this idea

agreed that sounds interesting

03:30

and is much easier to answer than a yes no thing

03:30

but

03:30

how to interpret the results

brother terbin

how to interpret the results

do you mean how to like explain to other people why certain number

03:31

it would kind of complicate things as far as discussing the voting goes but I still think after a while people would understand the process and it would develop into a good system

nono that's not what I mean

03:35

just thinking of mathematically

oh

03:35

bot

ye

03:35

guess that's easy

03:35

just set a threshhold

everything in life is solved by bot

03:35

yeah

skynet

1Charlie3

everything in life is solved by bot

until bots take over

yea was just thinking that

brother terbin

just thinking of mathematically

i think iron might like figuring it out

1

Are we thinking seriously about scoreboard style voting? I meant it as a joke, but the more I think about it, it could actually work. lol

04:36

It would mean the initiates are sort of playing to win points towards their approval. Each member would award the points that they deem appropriate based on their opinion of the initiate and the average would have to meet a threshold.

this is so based

04:53

if the threshold were 0.8 then it would be Sorta Similar to currently

I'm not sure, but it sounds like that may not be quite right... But I'm not sure how to figure the correct value...

80% no?

05:02

idk

05:02

just a thought

We could run tests along side the next several normal yes/no votes to figure out where passing or non-passing vote usually lands. (edited)

05:04

Like vote yes/no and give the rating. Then eventually, once we figure out what rating works best for acceptance, we'll eliminate the yes/no

05:04

The rating won't officially mean anything until yes/no is gone. (edited)

05:04

And it can be hidden

my overall thought is that i don't think it's such a good idea to try and "move complexity" away from Normal Discussion in here and towards a more intricate voting system. that is sort of the reason why i'm against things like "if X percent say abstain, delay for Y amount of time" or other complicated possible responses such as a "not yet" emote (lol), or numeric voting, etc etc etc

05:05

"just... say the thing you want to say using words in english in this channel" is my thought

05:05

idk

05:05

you dont need a button for every thought that comes into your head

Bromger Boomerang

Like vote yes/no and give the rating. Then eventually, once we figure out what rating works best for acceptance, we'll eliminate the yes/no

that sounds fine to me

No, but more fidelity means individual opinions carry more weight, which is good, I think. (edited)

@Brother F3 oh you're up

yes

05:07

I hate when I cant fall asleep

indeed

Same

@Brother leijurv Also, Anonymous points based voting would eliminate the problems caused by yes/no voting, both anonymous and public. Instead of talking to no-voters, there would always be a reason to reach out to any other brothers to advocate for more points for the initiate, but there wouldn't be any pressure to comply because the ratings would all be hidden. So the voters would have the complete freedom to vote as they please. (edited)

oh, glad you agree on that

05:13

yea

05:13

i could see that being neat

05:13

because there's always room for a little bit more, from everyone

Exactly

i still don't think that privately reaching out is a good thing in general though...

And every little bit increases the average

whats wrong with open discussion in here

05:13

everyone can benefit from hearing it

05:13

and you get more bang for your buck

05:13

no need to copy paste into a million dms

I mean... nothing is wrong with open discussion. That should obviously continue and be the main area of conversation. I just think brothers can independently introduce members of the group to a their nominee and start a relationship. Stuff like that. (edited)

05:18

Advocating for initiates is a good thing.

Brother Casparov

reaction*?

realization* i was with people when i wrote that and had my attention thoroughly parted.

Brother leijurv

if the threshold were 0.8 then it would be Sorta Similar to currently

one issue i see with this would be people would be very unlikely to give a full 10 or 1.0 imo

i think 80% would be hard to reach if you had a few 1s (edited)

21:03

Maybe that’s not a bad thing

21:04

If any brother votes 1/10 i’d say they probably shouldn’t be admitted

21:04

that’s a strong disapproval

yeah 1/10 should be you like hate the person and think they should be kicked from disc lol

ok this is gonna be fun cause he actually wrote a whole essay

22:57

Image attachment

22:58

Hi, I'm Stu. I'm from Ottawa Ontario Canada, been here all my life. I was your average middle of the road student. Initial ambition to join the RCMP but it never worked out. Love everything from magic the gathering, comic books and video games to working on my car, playing hockey and snowboarding. I love a good drink, from coffee to pretty much anything with alcohol. My favourite style of food is Italian, as is dessert. Pretty easy going guy, I get that life is what you make of it and not everything is perfect. Treat others how you want to be treated.

I heard of the server through the usual youtube recommendations of BarrenDome, FitMC and SalC1. I joined the server during the last couple weeks of Nov 2018 or first week of Dec. I don't know for sure because I wasn't very active. I was working for the wonderful UPS corp. and had insane hours. Playtime was very limited. At the beginning of my time on the server, I made my way out of spawn. Kept my head down and just tried to make my way out and catch little scraps where I could went I could. Eventually after settling down in my crummy little base a smidge under 500K out, *Image March 2020* https://i.imgur.com/faRRt8N.jpg I built in a little shattered savanna biome... when elytras were disabled due to an exploit... because why not. I had grand plans, but as a solo who was sitting back and learning about the server, I didn't do much there. So I packed up all my stuff and went back to spawn. I started to become more active in later half of 2019, to the point of even starting to stream 2b2:
 https://clips.twitch.tv/BashfulOptimisticFiddleheadsGOWSkull

22:58

since I received an injury and was off work. I learned early on to keep my yap shut and my eyes open. Learning the server culture and history as I went.  Slithering through spawn and taking reverted 32ks where I could find them as a paltry means of defense. I followed nether trails and found my way to my very first introduction with a real 32k. It wasn't pleasant. So I would try again. Back to the trails but with careful steps, well off highway I made my way to discovering my first dupe stash. Untouched stacked illegals and everyone some new player could hope for. I stuffed my inventory and e-chest with as much as I could and went back in to the nether. With the wonderful auto walk of Impact. I ran down the diagonal highway towards my base. Logging out every time someone came in to my render distance. I didn't want to make that mistake again, especially with a full inventory.

22:59

 
I made it back to my crummy little base and hid shulks of main stuff in item frames to avoid detection and the rest in dungeon chests and then back to spawn and the hunt. The renewal of Elytras towards the end of summer made it much more attractive to base hunt and explore. I quietly made my way around, not to disturb, leave no trace. I would venture out, find stashes and then hide them back to my main base. 2020 arrived. I could devote more time playing, not knowing that Covid was around the corner, I decided that I wanted to do more. I became more active in my exploration. More stream. More Building! I wanted to see more of spawn for longer. I would actively stream myself exploring the server and finding several stashes, bases pristine and griefed. I began to interact with the community. During my spawn explorations, I found my very first signed book. I'll never forget it, "Cool cool" by Elaphant. From that day on I was in the signed books and collectables discord. Through that I've traded books and items and coords with many players. I've been to many illegally place bed rock blocks and end portal frames. Seen bases from Rhadamantis to The Archive's remains post hausemaster edit but pre grief. I was lucky to find such tamed mobs as a Cryobyte dog and iTristan horse, no longer in my possession. I enjoyed going the distance. While flying around spawn I ran in to some of the Facepunch members creating a town "Summer Camp" and was invited to join them. I took part and made a little cottage and had fun and was invited to build with them again at their second attempt when "Summer Camp" fell due to a member having some disagreements. https://i.imgur.com/zTlY3qM.png 
I had fun but I felt that Facepunch wasn't for me.

22:59

 I began to feel an itch to add some nostalgia to the server, I decided a good start would be to rebuild xcc2's prismarine fortress https://i.imgur.com/otVXl5b.png . In doing so I got to meet xcc2 in game and through that, OverFloyd.Next was a stunning sandstone and grass temple, which later discovered was build by CasparovJR! It was lightly griefed but I began to do my repairs. (only to later find out it had been properly griefed while I was at the gf's family cottage) https://i.imgur.com/GtOgjiU.png . After that was a rebuild of large stone towers with grass and trees on top that I had seen before in my travels, and later brought to my attention was featured in a mines video. I adored the look and it deserved a rebuild. https://i.imgur.com/s0G1J0N.png https://i.imgur.com/rLJgKjm.png

22:59

 
Traveling around I would leave my signs that several others have found in their travels so it's always nice to get a message saying that they're still around. Having seen markers for a previous long passed scavenger hunt, I jumped at the opportunity to take part in the Spawn train project where I met Negative_Entropy. Through that I was invited as a guest in the Spawnmason discord. Mr_Pint then invited me to be part of the 2b2t party committee and build at the 2020 Sp03ky T0wn base, where I got to meet Breithan, BottleCapBrony, and many other Masons. Later on I was invited to see the Halloween Lodge, sadly I missed the spleef but got to meet LordNo, Nord1c and Nekramite. Afterwards I was invited to come and build at a mason base known as ChunkHaven where I met Todarac and I made a tree house. Twice. Thanks to fire. Next project was the 10th Anniversary Christmas which was a blast to build at and meet Terbin, finally. as well as many other Masons. That is where you find me today. I've no doubt left out many occasions of where I would leave kits at spawn or hide stuff in players bases I've visited during my travels and many streams. Without forgetting to mention the little spawn bases "meme" builds if you will where I would write a book and make the build about the contents, for example: A book about an old craigslist add about selling cinderblocks and getting irate. https://i.imgur.com/rx09Cv3.jpg

22:59

The reason why I want to join the Spawnmasons can be summed up in a simple example. Imagine 2b2t as a bar. All the other groups are the rowdy, sloppy patrons being loud and acting tough but with nothing to back it up. The Masons is that one quiet guy, just keeping an eye on things but no one would dare mess with. 

No other group does things like the Spawnmasons. No other group is as close knit and respected. No other group truly lasts and has brought people closer together. All other groups seem to be just screeching at the sky trying to be something special that players aspire to be a part of but it's futile really. All other group's efforts are, and forever shall be eclipsed ;)

That's why I want to join the Spawnmasons. I want to make friendships that go beyond blocks. One where you can cheer someone up in VC if they've had a shit day. One where you get a dm checking to see if things are good if you haven't spoken in a while. I want to be a part of something with good people and help beautiful, meaningful things happen on 2b2t.

Thank you for the opportunity.

SMIB.

22:59

ok thats it

thistbh

2

Image attachment

22:59

wow

this vote is anonymous so its important people give their view

he didn't include me in members he's close with Im voting no

That was beautiful

23:08

ranch good guy

id like him to pass

Brother Rathause

he didn't include me in members he's close with Im voting no

same

23:21

jk raaanch for Mason

ye fr

hes 35?

greensmib

2

How2votemason

he mentioned me twice in brothers he's close to lol (edited)

23:35

we've spent a ton of time in vc and watching each other play games and talked a ton about all kinds of stuff. i can say with utmost confidence that this dude is a prime specimen of excellent Brother Potential™️ (edited)

23:36

and is someone we want around

He’s a great dude, definitely worthy of joining

holy shit lol

00:54

what an essay

00:55

I like him

00:55

When can i vote

00:55

^^^^

01:03

I NEED to vote for raanch

01:03

Immediately

so you would vote before hearing everyone out?

My mind is made up :^)

01:05

If other's are not, ofc they should discuss

Brother Entropy

so you would vote before hearing everyone out?

yes

and thats exactly why the vote comes a day after lol

we have 24 hours to find something negative to say about raaanch

mayo

idk if it can be done

if people want to bug him with ridiculous questions in dms pretending that it matters to our discussion; this is the moment lol

Brother Entropy

so you would vote before hearing everyone out?

casparov and i made it so you can change your vote for a reason :^)

that hasnt changed

@here I'm scheduling my vote for exactly 21 hours from this moment. Please discuss why Raaanch sucks and shouldn't get my vote.

ranch is gross buffalo sauce on top

thistbh

1

He's been active in chat for a couple of months from what I've seen, seems nice, and gets along well with the rest of us. I think he'd been a good choice.

i think lets ban him

redpill

3

sorry when you see this ranch

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

01:50

fuck you ranch

cat_shocked

1

ranch more like gross

thistbh

1

Ranch, more like diabetes.

01:51

I heard that he likes holding hands in public. Total perv.

2

1Charlie3

hes 35?

Way too old to be a mason....amiright? heh heh.....

catmasonshow

1

tbh though with all the left over confectionary chips I've been mixing in my cocoa I'm the most likely to get diabetes.

ßrother LordNo.

Way too old to be a mason....amiright? heh heh.....

dad joke lol

ßrother LordNo.

Way too old to be a mason....amiright? heh heh.....

Aren't you pretty old yourself? Lol

Bromger Boomerang

Aren't you pretty old yourself? Lol

38 :p

OldMasons

hmm are you suggesting we all vote no on ranch?

Has Ranch done anything special or noteworthy on 2b2t? That is a reason some people often vote no. I cant really see anything in his essay that fits this criteria?

why is that a criteria? I thought we just want cool people

10:18

Just letting you know, I had not done anything special or noteworthy on 2b when I joined.

Brother Casparov

why is that a criteria? I thought we just want cool people

Its just a reason some people always give for voting no on people

I dont think theres anything huge indeed but I think people only complain about this when they dont 100% like the person or think they havent played nearly long enough

His name is Ranch

16:38

Other than that hes a cool guy

I vote yes for Ranch

do you vote yes for Raaanch tho (edited)

definitely feel like Raanch would fit in

Brother Casparov

why is that a criteria? I thought we just want cool people

oh boy

18:03

Image attachment

Under that context, having done something exceptional is the criteria for adding or removing a guest, not for adding a active guest as a brother.

thistbh

1

I believe I am preaching to the choir here

18:19

but let me share my views towards raaaanch: (edited)

18:19

can you buy me new speakers

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Been talking with Dectonic a lot lately, warmed up to him quite a lot. I take back what I said about not wanting him as a guest :3

No take-backs. Mason Rule #7

1

owned

20:52

dec has always been chill

I still would like to wait let's not rush it

Brother Oppenheimer

Has Ranch done anything special or noteworthy on 2b2t? That is a reason some people often vote no. I cant really see anything in his essay that fits this criteria?

yes: he has done something incredible that no one else has done on 2b... and that is just simply being Raaanch

redpill

1

He’s the only base hunter/collector type that I don’t find to be an annoying cloutchaser

^

I think that’s pretty incredible

he's exceptional to me

Brother leijurv

oh boy

requirements are quite loose

well I hadn't done shit when I joined lmao

also everything was different casp

true

checks your degrees

hmm

Image attachment

I can see other peoples votes

02:32

At least one

02:32

Anyways

god this is so big brain

I could see votes before i voted then once i voted they all didappeared

this bot makes me so happy

lmao

02:35

it's alive

[HR/PR/G] Rebane v3

hmm

how did u get a blue circle lmao

02:37

oh right entropy didn't do what I asked

the bot is fun

03:12

reminds me of voco

ufo

1

ehh

Image attachment

iphone gang stronk

you last one better have been

(edited)

no comment

~>:(

you got a steaming dent in your head there

under the number system, how does one abstain? question for anyone but mostly @Brother Oppenheimer

are...you guys married?

05:40

you're just jealous :winkyeyefaceemojinumber42069:

lol

05:42

you forgot to add the words cat and flushed to that emoji

05:42

I don't think any mason emojis don't have cat in them

@Brother Scribble Once we know what average score is needed to pass, voting that score is parallel to abstaining. It won't shift the average either way, but it'll bring it closer to the center. (edited)

:catflushedforabettertomorrowemoji:

05:45

i like it, under the new system, abstaining is a high tier undertaking requiring one to analyze a real time data flow. very well done masons. very well done. @Brother Oppenheimer check.

1

Regardless, with anonymous voting, ranked or binary, abstain isn't really useful as there's no one to communicate to that you've considered the vote. (edited)

yeah so just dont vote then is abstain if we are being serious

exactly. But the ranked system gives a higher level of fidelity to voting so people are less likely to feel pushed to make a tough decision and abstain.

abstaining never seem like a tough or last resort type of thing for me. i was under the impression it was just a way of saying yeah i agree with this or i trust what other people are saying.

05:53

not like, oh shit oh fuck better abstain

05:53

still interested in your answer jordan man

05:55

is the 1-10 like, a percentage of how mason we think someone is?

05:55

1 = 10% mason so that would be a no. but what does a 100% mason initiate look like?

it is whatever we want it to be

what is a ten for you entrop man

05:56

use current brothers for a guide please lol

05:56

so like, im not around really atm, my mason percentage would be lower than it should be (edited)

i dont think id give a 10 too quickly like ever when i rate stuff i keep the highest rating for the one person better than you put your ideal

would you bring in the inactive algorithm? time served as guest, lodges helped constructed, bad memes created

eh people can just make up their mind themselves lol

so 1 be the high end and 10 low?

05:58

if we are just making shit up lol

not like that lo

05:58

the 1-10 thing was literally just a running thought it means nothing yet

i feel like we need a graph, litigious on one axis and legitimate on another

05:59

if it reaches a certain point it gets an auto veto and is thrown out

06:05

entrop can you add "Ranch is a person, not a number - a 2021 speech about thoughts and feelings by scribble "two x" foxx" to next weeks agenda please

06:06

thank you for your service

lol. Scribble is really having fun with this ranked voting experiment.

Hahahaha

i promise to stay respectful while doing so

You're welcome scribble

vines

1

the ranking voting experiments seems a little too complicated to me, though I applaud the creativity of the idea. I like the current blind votes we tried today, though the real test of it will come when we have a more polarising initiate. I think we should keep the new system in place until that happens and then reassess

agreed, i find ranked voting a little too tryhard lol :P

08:17

it is an interesting idea

08:17

might like a smaller scale tho

08:18

1-5 or something

i think 1-4 cus otherwise u have the same problem where ppl will just vote the middle one

https://i.imgur.com/JLfF0mr.png

Embedded image

09:26

1-5 voting explained ^

genius

Brother Scribble

i like it, under the new system, abstaining is a high tier undertaking requiring one to analyze a real time data flow. very well done masons. very well done. @Brother Oppenheimer check.

Yeah man I like the idea, we discussed it in here the other day

Brother Todarac

https://i.imgur.com/JLfF0mr.png

AUSSIE APPROVED

10:31

remove eeeeehhhhhh

10:31

and its pure gold

Brother Casparov

remove eeeeehhhhhh

replace it with brrrrraaapppp

Just curious: What do people think about Rain? I don't know her well, but she's nice to have in chat and Mango is an absolute treasure.

happy to have as guest but prob very little time on 2b

Fair enough. Didn't think about that. I've seen her on const, but I don't know that she's very active there either.

I base with her, honestly pretty based dude

22:49

Good builder

Does she play 2b often? Tell us more!

In my experience she's usually on at least a couple hours each day

I meant years played lol

Bromger Boomerang

Does she play 2b often? Tell us more!

I was answering this question entwopeepee!!!!

23:42

Idk how many years

she joined 2b in (early?) 2019

23:55

i think

i think she said 2018 iirc

23:55

theres prob a few 2018 bruddas

23:55

@brother terbin !

terbin

23:55

yep

wtf

23:56

lol

tbqh, i think she's Mason material, but she's pretty young (15)

23:58

really chill tho. Raaa ch, her, i vc a ton (edited)

Hari joined 2019.

I joined in 2019

fucking newrags

still got that newrag smell

The newness of your rag has little to do with your start date. Just sayin.

01:20

I know newrags that joined before me and oldrags that joined after me.

Well in some respects i think that’s true

01:22

But there are also big shifts in the culture (edited)

01:23

like pre and post june

01:23

i dunno who cares

So

01:27

I have no idea what happened to the bot.

poZzedd

I'm gonna quickly log in and see if there's any error message.

OK

01:35

so uh

01:38

someone voted, and then the bot refused to send a pm

some ppl have dms off

lmfao owned

lmaoooo

yep

lord have mercy

who ever has DMs turned off for non-friends own up now (edited)

01:44

ill quickly fix the bot, then we'll probably run the vote for another 12 hours as that is what we have missed.

01:44

votes have been tallied in the broken version, so you don't need to worry about voting again if you voted on that one

01:50

@here if you have dms turned off for non-friends, then you'll have to trust that your vote has counted when you vote. either turn on your dms OR accept messages from the bot before you vote

01:51

the "number of votes" counter should increase when you vote, so you can use that as an indicator that you voted

simple and easy fix

Image attachment

smib

1

My fault for not catching the exception, I didn't think about it

01:53

but yeah, plz do that ^

01:56

If you would like to change your vote, vote on the new 12 hour voting section

01:56

when it appears

you should set it for 24 hrs tbh

01:57

most people voted

you think we should restart?

but I don't want anyone to miss it

01:57

not restart

yeah sure. Thats okay

01:58

well 24h is basically a restart

can you keep the votes but still let it go on for 24 hrs

01:58

just in case people are asleep

sure

01:58

@Brother Entropy do a second vote

01:59

im now passing the exception if someone still has their dms turned off

01:59

so the error wont happen again

i think it was only giganox

02:09

and it wouldnt change the vote

I mean, ufo wants people to be able to keep voting

02:10

in case anyone did miss out

02:10

talk it out I guess, the vote might already be pretty finalized

I could see peoples votes earlier

02:13

I know that wailn voted and i know what way he voted

yeah that was just discord

02:14

I can't do anything about that. The api doesn't like super spam

02:14

besides, wailn could have easily changed his vote since then so

02:14

you don't truly know

ill add giganoxes thing to the total, and anyone elses if they had it too, and would rather not do a complete revote lol

right okay

02:18

go about it how you want, im just saying some people could have possibly missed out. You don't have to do complete revote, you could like, set it up for another 12 hours or smth

02:18

and then take the votes from both

02:19

then again, 22 votes are usually around the maximum we get

if i gotta start merging results then i could just as well take complaints from dm

sure

and if there were a lot of people then i wouldve gotten more complaints :p

smib

1

maybe just end the vote now, take complaints and then finalise

02:23

at least its only 1 person lol (edited)

02:23

but still, would have been good if giganox voted earlier while I was awake xD

>post it at 3 am

02:24

giga only gets to discord at 5 pm

02:24

im not surprised lol

well then

02:24

its okay, we'll do better next vote

02:26

@Brother Entropy when you finalise the votes, you can remove the bot's messages, unless you don't want to

there should be some record

oki doki

it will make it easy to find past votes if you do like from:votemasons

02:29

in the search bar

yeeah

if it finishes normally it gives the tally so

it wont

02:29

bot fully broke

02:30

it wont finish

02:30

you'll have to do it manually

i mean when nothing goes wrong lol

ah yeah

02:30

this is true

02:30

if you want to make a tally manually you can

02:30

honestly whatever you think is best

02:32

but yeah, I restarted the bot with more error catching so, shouldn't happen again if someone still has dms off

wowowow raaanch eeezzzz approval

I voted 9/10 because no one is perfect :^)

same

05:36

i think

I voted 10/10 Because life is too short for moderation

thistbh

1

i voted 10/10 because raanch is p*ggers

i voted 10/10 bc Raaanch is Raaanch

do we get to know who voted no?

I don't think so

08:32

Anonymous (edited)

ah i thought that we were gonna say who voted what after the vote

1-10 voting v based

Without seeing who voted what, how can we know the vote counted everyone correctly? I think the vote should be revealed so people can see the bot worked correctly? (even if only for this first vote)

i can confirm your score if you ask me we also did extensive testing before lol

17:34

it doesnt really ever fuck up what people voted

17:35

if it fucks up its just that it stops working

Brother Oppenheimer

Without seeing who voted what, how can we know the vote counted everyone correctly? I think the vote should be revealed so people can see the bot worked correctly? (even if only for this first vote)

megatroll

If you got a dm it was counted

I didn’t :(

the vote said that if you didnt get a dm back that it didnt work and you had to tell us or try again (edited)

18:37

charlie not listed in the results

owned

bad bot

no

How do I vote (edited)

its over

19:30

lmfao

But like how In general (edited)

just press the emote

But where it wasn’t in the normal channel

it was

19:31

#applicant-council

It says via bot but I never saw the vote for them

cause its over

Well I didn’t see it when it was supposedly going on as well

19:32

Rough

there was a ping

19:32

dunno what to tell ya

yea

19:32

i tried to get it to go on for longer but entropy wouldnt let me

19:33

since it broke

it should have been longer yeah

19:33

entropy tyrant

thistbh

3

This is the future of automation

19:34

We’re living in 1984

Брат Bird

This is the future of automation

Sato moment

lmao

Brother leijurv

Sato moment

Image attachment

X

I missed it too bird, didnt realize it was in another channel. i would have voted yes anyway, but i guess i missed those pings too. Just for next time where do i look?

it was in the normal channel

oh. but not like the other votes? something about a bot yeah?

21:15

i remember the talk about preferred voting, i think i missed the bot meeting

it looked like this

Image attachment

There was a ping too

lol. i thought the red green thing was a coder joke

21:16

my bad

omg

broder lampa

There was a ping too

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/799023535523758130

next time maybe it wont break lo

all good, ill make sure i know whats happening next time, i just missed something.

Idk how I missed it I've been streaming movies in this discord for like a week (edited)

does this make us Automasons

guys i really tried to get another 24 hours

21:19

blame tyrant entropy

That guy sucks

brother noname

you should set it for 24 hrs tbh

boom

i think even after another 24 hours i would have said the same thing lets be completely honest uufo my dude

21:20

i just didnt see the bot thing i guess

Bot masons

21:24

Haha a bot can do it brrr

Missed opportunity not calling this Application Nation

I still can't believe you lost the election

perhaps change the emojis to "yes" and "no"?

But the monke

21:43

Image attachment

brother terbin

perhaps change the emojis to "yes" and "no"?

they need to be unicode

22:12

aka not custom emotes

Ah

It might be possible to use custom emotes

22:16

In a few hours I’ll take a look at the api and see if i could implement that

the colors are fine lol

solution: approach the Unicode Consortium and convince them to add yes

yes

and

to the standard emoji library

Lmao

@Brother Fruit the current version is not on github

05:26

so dont do that plz

05:26

ill put the current version up

05:26

when I get back from work

don’t worry entropy told me not to

05:28

zany_cat

Brother Todarac

solution: approach the Unicode Consortium and convince them to add yes

yes

and

to the standard emoji library

They should. With the odd sized boxes and off-center text as well.

lmao

07:34

completely different font

07:34

one all caps other all lowercase

07:34

so funny

Alternatively, we could use these:

True but as lamp said

07:34

monke

You know I prefer the numbers anyway, so what do I care what emotes we use for yes and no? (edited)

I’m still not completely sold on the numbers

07:38

It’s an interesting system

07:38

I guess I’d have to see like, a further along proof of concept

07:38

What the threshold would be etc

Yeah. The reason we're doing the testing is because we're not really sure what the right threshold would be. I think in theory, the average scores given will generally be lower than the average percentages of yes and nos. Raaanch's vote added to that theory. We'll see what happens with the next few votes, but I think the numbered system gives us much more fidelity for determining how enthusiastic we are for a new member.

I mean, if you take 1-5 as no and 5-10 as yes, then naturally the average would usually be lower than the yes/no split

Exactly, Though it would be more appropriate to consider >[average needed to pass] = yes, <[average needed to pass] = no. Since any vote below the threshold will bring the average down and any vote above will bring it up. That's why we want to see about where the average usually lands on its own, without a threshold set, so we can determine a threshold that seems appropriate and doesn't skew the voters' scale too much. (edited)

What you guys think about Yqe for guest?

does he vc

I don’t think he talks much

14:41

Very interesting dude tho

i like him but idk if he has brother potential

he doesn't talk

14:50

swedish youngster

14:51

he's cool tho

14:51

also he's prob not that young but he's younger than me zany_cat

zany_cat

let's ask him if he would be willing to talk

>trying to clear up guests cause we were at 25

14:59

>people just keep suggesting guests (5 in the last 3 days aaaaaaaaaaaaa (edited)

Just been chatting to him, he dose not speak in vc that often but is willing to join and see how it goes. I have told him if he is inactive in vc he will be kicked, he is fine with that and said he would try to be active. He is currently helping with a large 2b project that lots of masons are helping with so would be nice to get him in here!

I'm waiting for some less guests so Neo Paladin can have a free spot.

yqe, villicool, meghan are all in the same boat for me

16:55

My impressions of them is chaotic and unpredictable allegiance to the closest source of clout.

We have raaanch already? Have you talked to this man? He r a d i a t e s clout

he does

I don’t think that describes villi at all but idk about yqe and Meghan idk who Meghan is actually

yqe is not clout chasing at all lol

18:38

That's villicool

i understand why yqe comes across as clout chasing tho

18:40

he is a smart dude, has an edge to him

18:40

but you can definitely work with him

My experience with all three comes as an active emp member running emp projects

23:05

So tale it all with that in mind

by this he means they griefed emp logo i think

That yes

For context emperor threatened to get the followers of the crafting table discord terminated and some other emp members mentioned the use of illegal means to do so if the ct messed with them, then villi and Megyn (back before he was a moron) led the project to fill the spawn omegas

is that one plus point for vill?

i like villi but from what i head he doesnt have any intrest in becoming a guest here i kinda agree that yqe is a bit of a clout chacer but its not too bad imo from the interactions ive had with him hes fine and i have never talked to Meghan so i have no opinion and i abstain from giving my opinion

I dont think yqe is a clout chaser. Id lean towards a no for villi. If the meghan people are talkig about is the meghan i think then hard no. (edited)

ye isn't megyn one of the phobos backdoor guys

If meghan is megyn, HARD NO

don't think anyone actually asked for villi or meghan, they were just labeled as "in the same boat" as yqe

Yeah I wasn’t proposing villi for guest that convo has already happened I was just giving some perspective on a bit of autistic drama that happened a while ago

Oh definitely not in the same boat

but I don't think that's the case

18:18

ye

Ah, I misunderstood

I still wanna know who Meghan is tho

^^ lol

18:25

villi was asked for and a lot of ppl said no lol

have many times are we going to talk about villi

18:38

weary_cat

plus he doesnt want to be in here

Finally I can say

to guest invites! pepmason

pepmason

itsjusta

I’d be fine with yqe. I don’t know them enough personally, just through their actions. One last question. Was yqe one of the ct guys bullying finstaa at cloud club?

20:10

Removing his build and replacing it with a crafting table?

no im pretty sure that was villi

I'd like to vote to make lodges more Australian friendly

lets have a lodge every day at different times

greensmib

2

we once checked

01:06

Image attachment

01:07

if we loose the ability of 7 people to attend for 2 to be able to make it its kind of antiproductive

01:07

its like a terrible interlay of 3 timezones where its impossible to find a good moment

maybe have alternating times, or one lodge an hour later per month or something

greensmib

1

if you make the lodge you could demand to push the hour forward or back lol (edited)

01:09

has been requested before

yeah that's fair

01:09

builder should have some input as to the time

Tbh whining that a lodge is at 4pm versus 2pm and that it takes a few extra seconds to figure that out on lodge day is silly when it means the difference of 6am and 8am for someone else

yes I agree, but maybe it's more problematic for the europeans - they probably don't want to start the lodge at midnight or 1am

no its euros who would care (edited)

02:08

yeah

02:09

i dont think most NA masons would care

yeah the euros are the main guys that'd care about that

02:10

its in the evening for them already so

02:10

I think

right now for most europeans it starts at 23

11pm? yeah

02:13

https://www.fastcompany.com/1665437/infographic-of-the-day-what-time-is-the-internet-the-most-awake

Infographic Of The Day: What Time Is The Internet The Most Awake?

Bård Edlund shares with us a nifty little experiment in showing the rolling periods of wakefulness around the world. So when’s the best time to tweet something?

02:14

9am EST

02:15

push it to 10 to make it pog and bam

02:15

although that is 1am for me lel

02:17

someone will always get the short end of the stick

02:17

best if its the lesser amount of people in here

Brother Entropy

Click to see attachment 🖼️

we could have 8 lodges current time and then 6 1 hour later and then repeating

12:32

we could ease it even more by having it a sinus function that determains the time of lodge start

12:32

and to make it easier for humans we round it to a quarter of an hour

Screw humans. Why does everything have to be made easy for them? Are they supposed to be “the smartest creatures on earth?”

brochacho committing some bad faith speech in here, i now know Coltsnid's actual name

Wherr

in vc

What do you expect

not much different to be honest

Not in favor of brochacho

brochacho is kinda retard tbh

20:51

i always disliked him

got added to an incredibly cancerous group chat with him, reggie, phi, yqe, nambrose, etc

20:51

Not a good look lol

rofl

Nambrose

ufo

there are also other brothers in there

music ?

20:52

serber

what

the music appreciation server?

I don’t like brochacho

gang

eepy Joe

the music appreciation server?

it’s a group chat

20:58

Image attachment

ew

ikr

yuck

21:43

I dm'd him

Image attachment

21:43

didn't give any details or examples. Just told him to try and be a little more mature and then sent the above message (edited)

1

thank you lordno :^) youre a real G !

Solid advice!

If he asks "begs" for invite, don't

Image attachment

he didnt :p

coord quest

can terbin see my dms now too

i'm everywhere

minecraftheart

3

4

4

4

4

4

Lol

what

Does anyone here know Nexx

01:46

he wants an invite

no

01:49

we are stealing there stash

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

I’ve never had any interactions with Nexx that come to mind

brother noname

we are stealing there stash

nexx might be moving it rn or soon

01:50

dectonic said he'd tell nexx to leave you the wood chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

i dont WANT THE WOOD i want the stash

LMAO

I know nexx kinda

01:51

he used to be voco

01:51

nice guy

01:55

one time when he was still in voco he asked pepsi how you get into the masons and he told him you needed a lot of reddit karma and nexx believed him

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

2

01:56

popstonia

LOL i remember that

01:56

that was nexx? baseddd

trolled

That’s hilarious!!

And is a young danish griefer

07:35

But nice to speak to

Nexx griefs?

17:20

And is danish?

my bad I think - checking the DMs

18:12

confused him with some other Guardsmen guy

18:12

Nexalus = Drollovitch?

18:13

so ye if that above is true then ignore what I said

I

️ Drollovitch

brother terbin

Nexalus = Drollovitch?

yes, there is nexalus (drolo), nexx and a guy named nexuz or some shit (edited)

18:48

they all play 2b

friendly reminde that drollovitch, drathader, drachenstein, dragonworm

20:02

many similar names!

what do u guys think of futsin as a guest? (edited)

he loves entropy so that's a great start

20:19

didn't he help build the train?

20:19

and he's at chunk haven idk if he built anything yet

good guest material ngl

i like futsin, but i just want to point out

20:33

i think many here only know of him because of his hyper simping for entropy

20:34

nice enough guy for sure, we get along well

eepy Joe

i think many here only know of him because of his hyper simping for entropy

yes but i was just kidding lol

ok

hyper simping

23:38

accurate

What was the problem with Rain?

01:36

Like that she couldn't get initiate because of something

Newness

Big rip

01:48

She very cool tho

Totally agree

She's good company.

^

very active in VC, but I don't even know if she plays 2b xD (edited)

Brother Giganox

very active in VC, but I don't even know if she plays 2b xD (edited)

she does shes active at a base im at

Ye she does

she joined in late 2018/early 2019, so i'm calling that "too new" objection hogwash.

12:54

unless "too new" was regarding the Masons

12:56

she defs has massive ~~brother~~ Sister Potential™️ (edited)

12:57

i'd wait a little while on her, tho

Embedded image

@SpawnMason

THUMBNAIL

1 pixel

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/796138087264026624

Image attachment

who vouched for who of the current yellows again as in whos gonna make sure they attend stuff and be our handler (edited)

I vouch for dark

16:38

Ufo vouched for all 3 I believe, Joey vouched for dark and chipoff

I vouched for dark

16:50

I think a lot of people vouched for each initiate

^

16:53

I'm happy to be a 'handler' for dark and chipoff. What precisely does that entail?

16:55

Is it just bringing them to things?

yea nobody really knows

16:55

but if nobody feels like its their task then it doesnt go well

This

17:08

Basically get them to engage and do all the things that will increase their chances of getting the vote when the time comes

just ask them once in a while how it's going

17:09

if there are confusions, they will know they can ask you

17:09

I recon

17:09

keep them engaged?

Yeah

17:10

Joining chats, vc, builds

spawnmason mentors when

ThisTBH

1

i interact pretty regularly with both

awesome

i vouched for Rain first, and then for Chipoff and Dark once someone mentioned them

They will need dna test to find out who their masonic parents are...

don't we let them pick their "parent(s)"?

Yeh

I second the Rain vouch and also vouch for Thebes if no one has done so already in the current rotation.

I think vouches only count at meetings. But i am a big proponent of only considering very active people for initiate

he wouldnt even want it lol

^

another pork

Rain

Image attachment

06:30

Image attachment

06:34

you have a month to make up your minds lol

>is active on 2b >is young but actually knows how to write / talk >always in vc >mango probably a yes for me. probably.

06:38

I really like that she was treated nicely from everyone in here, especially after seeing the worst communities 2b has to offer

accomplishments are low incase she built a lot she just didnt talk about any of it guess ill see how this develops

Too long of an application - denied

you heard it here first folks

07:02

move along, next initiate

lol

nick did you see raanch lol

thistbh

1

1

wow she hung out with a lot of retards before

Ranch retroactively removed for long application

07:09

I personally think the cardinal question of Mayonnaise or No Mayonnaise should be on the application but

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

Brother Wailn

wow she hung out with a lot of retards before

that is true but i think she knows that they were retarded and couldnt find where to go to find not retarded ppl until she came here

07:10

hence she only stayed with the different groups for a month or two

07:10

and shes been trying to distance herself from those groups as much as possible

She got doxed by Jared too, that's doing enough on the server we've all been there

lol

she definitely seems cool don't get me wrong. She's also very young and I feel needs more experience on the server. I'm leaning no for now but that may change

being a bit young shouldnt mean much tho since we have other masons in the age group

yeah the most damning you can say about her is what entropy pointed out, she hasnt done that much on the server

just look at hanscor

the young thing doesnt bother me

Brother Todarac

yeah the most damning you can say about her is what entropy pointed out, she hasnt done that much on the server

true but she is quiet active at a base im at

She has bird haha accepted

you heard it here first folks

07:14

move along, next initiate

yeah I know, hanscor, iron I think is young too, but they are very skilled in what they do, exceptional even lol

Gebrüder Zippie

true but she is quiet active at a base im at

I'd like to see some builds then

As a bird Im viciously bias so I abstain_neutral

abstain_neutral

hard feelings

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

1

I feel like people are being ‘rushed through the system’. What is the harm of people being left guest longer?

08:18

Rain has a good trajectory.

Brother Todarac

I'd like to see some builds then

i'm in her personal base Discord (same as a few others in here). she is a terraforming goddess. idk if the only structural builds at the base are built by her, but if they are, she defs has build potential. not exceptional potential, but remarkable.

Brother Entropy

Click to see attachment 🖼️

omg this is very aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

14:33

don't have any adjectives appropriate to this stuff

14:33

so I just default to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

very nice text

I want her in like fcking now lmao

14:40

how can you say no to birb mango

I feel like she had a bit of a rocky start on the server but I definitely think she has a lot of potential. she’s also fun to talk to in vc and has an epic bird

nobody seems to have issues with her either

She didn’t mention her art work but she’s very talented maybe someone here can find some examples

14:44

Ik she’s done a few pieces for 2b stuff

Brother Entropy

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Wtf yet another Shortbus Member denying membership

Brother Pint

i'm in her personal base Discord (same as a few others in here). she is a terraforming goddess. idk if the only structural builds at the base are built by her, but if they are, she defs has build potential. not exceptional potential, but remarkable.

She built most of the stuff there I believe, I gave very basic pointers on a couple small things, but she did pretty much all her builds independently afaik (edited)

Also, as far as signs of longevity are concerned, she has weathered some of the worst experiences the server has. Doxxed and bullied by emp, doxxed by Jared, pressured into token logging others, having your discord raided, and she is still here.

thistbh

1

^

Brother Todarac

I'd like to see some builds then

then come to chunk haven mdma

mdma

I find her very personable and easy to get along with. She is consistently active to the point where she forgets that she’s logged in ahahah. Good to talk to. Seems very good at keeping private matters that way. Can handle herself well when dumb shit is going, like the recent bullshit from jumpy. Mango. It’s a yes from me. Unless there is something glaring that happens to change my mind.

what happened with jumpy

phobos

Jumpy went around saying some less than kind things about rain going with ufo to pint's show...

I thought jumpy quit

18:39

Where is he saying this?

i live rent free in jumpys head

chhhhiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa

4

Why they gotta booly

ßrother LordNo.

Where is he saying this?

in his private discord

Ahh

18:40

LordNoInvite over here

since some ppl in here wernt quiet sure what rain has done in the past i asked her to send some examples

19:13

Embedded image

19:13

Embedded image

19:13

Embedded image

19:14

Embedded image

19:14

Embedded image

19:14

Embedded image

very very awesome

19:14

@Brother Todarac

Embedded image

good builder

19:22

uwu

true

Embedded image

19:38

that too

rain kinda wronged emperium tho iirc

19:44

she switched up as soon as Phobos thing happened and then tried to get back in

19:44

rats jump off the sinking ship first

(edited)

1Charlie3

rain kinda wronged emperium tho iirc

yeah this is a plus for me

19:45

more of a response for why jumpy doesn’t like her

squirt_bottle

Fuck emp

19:45

All i gotta say (edited)

19:46

All the chill emp people are in here already anyway

true lol

lol like 1/2 of our recruits come from emp

emp is like a filter

Notice how the vast majority are now former emp

all the retarded ppl stay there all the cool ppl end up here

mdma

the masons are better but emperium is just as equally a mason breeding ground as it is autist breeding ground

bluepill

bluepill

no emperium no masons

bluepill

2

bluepill

redpill no one wants to hear

bluepill

stop with ur bluepill

bluepill

Charlie

redpill

3

Emp is just as lame as ii. Difference is the chill people in emp are chiller than the ii ones (edited)

true

19:50

i mean II has kinda replaced emp as "The group to join if ur new"

very blue comments from zippie who threatened to leak all emperium bases he had access too when jumpy made fun of him

All they do is feed bachis ego lmfao

lol very accurate representation of what i said

so based zippie

19:51

should've leaked them (edited)

true true

Leaking emp bases is dumb. The emp builders are alright. The retards that should be fucked over are the pvpers

true

yesssss

Thats why i didnt leak the emp bases i was at when i was booted

19:52

Because believe me i thought about it

because they toxic? just ignore them lol ??

when were u emp?

I had zeta and never went to an emp base mdma

mdma

based

Late summer and up to like a week before phobos iirc

19:53

I bet the one base is still there even

There are like 4 people who I liked in emperium and they all quit

This

true

true (edited)

or they came here

19:53

lol

Lordno

thistbh

3

emperium is middle man mason recruiting idk why u guys hate

19:54

don’t hate appreciate

It's time to stop

Give it time, itll be the Shortbus Caliphate mdma

mdma

not anymore so now we can shit on them lol

19:55

jk

Im not kidding, fuck emp lol

idk i liked emp but only in the state it was in a few years ago

Ive never liked emp

1Charlie3

no emperium no masons

it is very true

you were inactive for the last 2 year in emp that’s probably why zippie

Dark emperor is cool

not like you would know what the state of it is

1Charlie3

you were inactive for the last 2 year in emp that’s probably why zippie

true lol

About the only thing i like about the place

i liked it when it was basically hanscor jordan and me doing everything

19:57

its been shit ever since imo

19:58

and now all the cool ppl are here

19:58

so idc about the group anymore

^based list

doesnt mean i hate it, its just a lot worse than it used to be

19:59

and there hasnt been a good vc that isnt just annoying kids screaming for a few years since then

emp was horrible ever since jumpy joined

lol

and then became ok after he left

Jumpy is a fucking braindead retard

redpill

3

yes

3

thistbh

3

bluepill

1

bluepill

1

eepy Joe

Jumpy is a fucking braindead retard

this tbh

speak on it king

and then jumpy ran everything and it became shitty lol

the only reason I like emp is cause we got Charlie

what about hanscor?

Empmasons are based

yea and hans cor Jordan you and lord no and nekra

Everyone else can just like... despawn

brother terbin

it is very true

disagree

redpill

1

^

i agree that the majority of emp is annoying just saying there are a few pieces of gold in the shitpile

really it’s just a few autistic people and lots of neutral people with some good people

thistbh

1

20:02

most people are just young not retarded

Masons were founded before or at the same time as emperium and at the start each emperium member initiation caused a lot of controversy tbh (edited)

But the anti emperium sentiment either subsided or it’s advocates left entirely

20:03

Frankfurt moment

mdma

1

someone post the I'm glad I'm not that guy emp Mason meme @Brother Todarac

I am all for the destruction of emp, I am a proud anti-emp advocate

the systematic emperium hate has to stop

✋

virgin emperium / chad society / thad spawnmasons

https://i.imgur.com/QuOjD1A.png

Embedded image

thistbh

1

Society project with SEZ at the head was unironically based

20:06

I wish he would boot fucking penguinos are take over again

Brother Todarac

https://i.imgur.com/QuOjD1A.png

true lol

Brother Todarac

https://i.imgur.com/QuOjD1A.png

yessssss

so many bluepills here. Emp is just like every other try-hard wannabe faction: a septic tank for needy clout-chasing idiots (edited)

redpill

2

20:17

also, jumpy better clamp his lips bc that bullshit is kinda serious (edited)

1Charlie3

very blue comments from zippie who threatened to leak all emperium bases he had access too when jumpy made fun of him

based zippie, only way zippie could have been more based is if he did it

so true

lol

20:49

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/803341802005463070 just gonna post this since i feel like a lot of ppl didnt see it

yes

1

redpill

1

thistbh

1

yeshello

1

Dark

Image attachment

13:13

Image attachment

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 26/01/2021 13:14

YES HELLO

Good application

yeshello

mcheart

Old masons based

Yes

Very based

damn he's old

my thoughts exactly lul

he acts a lot younger i feel, but very good app very good contender

Dark is dank

16:55

i thought he was 37... i was close lol

he's very sweet

17:07

Image attachment

not an issue at all<3

ye that's what I said

17:09

to him

Is anyone here older than him?

yes

Thought so

wont even be the oldest mason

not sure if any active mason is older than him. But ex-mason yes (edited)

Isn’t doc like 60

docsmurf? he's not in the discord

17:22

and no

Doctrzombie

ah

17:22

hmm

17:22

could be

Sorry not docsmurf

no worries :)

isnt giga like 100 years old?

soontm

2

17:23

hes active

Zombie is not 60

Lol

Dark good

thistbh

3

but im voting no cus noone will know its me catflushed

catflushed

Krobar oldest

18:50

unless there is other secret grandpa mason

18:51

@brother noname secret grandfather maybe

im 24

94 you mean?

18:51

senile

yes i have dementia

me too.

1Charlie3

94 you mean?

have seen. can confirm

Chipoff (edited)

Image attachment

10:29

Image attachment

10:30

Image attachment

10:30

Image attachment

Brother Entropy pinned a message to this channel. 27/01/2021 10:30

and a half lul

ye

That Beardler thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth after reading this. But the fact that he realises that he might have gotten too used to the toxicity of 2b means that there is still hope for him, right? I kind of like that he puts energy into making information accessible. (edited)

The association with beardler makes me uncomfortable, but it does not make me trust chipoff less, or think of him less. I am concerned moving foreward, though. Some random kid nuked beardler's base 'on my behalf' without my advanced knowledge... Chipoff was en route. I cannot guarantee this wont happen again. I almost admire Chipoff for giving beard a chance, but I think he's getting fooled, and it makes me unhappy to say the least. I don't think less of the guy though. He's been open minded and extremely accepting of others the whole time I've known him. I cannot say yes to him joining enough times to properly express my feelings on the matter. (edited)

11:37

Chipoff has been extremely reliable on the wiki, the discord archive is now his for a reason; his dedication to the project. He's a capable basemate, a good friend, but most of all: Chipoff is a non-shitter and a non-retard. Coconut ™️ approved (edited)

11:42

I mean what can i say

11:43

I love the guy (no homo). We gotta get him in here ASAP

Agreed I trust Chipoff 100%

^would trust him with my main base without a second thought if he had no base

beardler association is a little off putting, but he seems like a cool dude

Chipoff is defs a good guy. when i accidentally leaked the coords to the Halloween base in October, he was one of the first to see. he didn't go spreading it and, when i invited him out of mere damage-control, he still didn't share it.

it was all so good till i got to the beardler part

remember, he didn't have to share it but decided to

Also remember that Beardler didnt fuck most of you over

18:21

Not to mention chipoff didnt know him then either

Beardler was a kid too

18:30

here's what he put in respect club last year

Image attachment

18:30

not that it has anything to do with chipoff

Personally i still believe beard is a snake, but we're talking about chipoff here

18:52

I dont think his association with beard is anything to worry about

18:52

Chippy is a capable guy, a hard worker, and a good friend

Beardler is mentally ill

I mean if he wasnt before, he certainly was after a video by a major youtuber was made to shit on him specifically

18:58

And that part is a shame

Hell yeah. I like Chipoff. He's a solid and respectable dude. He could have left out that Beardler detail, but no doubt was honest to show his solidarity here. Yes. Beardler is and forever shall be the pit of the bottom of the outhouse, but I trust that Chipoff won't let anyone get dragged in to it.

Tbh i like chipoff even more because he was open about it

18:59

Im sure he knew a few of us would have a collective coronary, but still decided to tell the truth

18:59

Brother material is all I gotta say

kind of off topic but is ciroc in that same beardler group too?

I dont know, I try to just avoid beardler at this point. I dont want any more trouble

19:02

I know i will probably say mean things and i dont want that

lol

I'm with you. I personally have avoided all that stuff, which is why I'm curious as to why Chipoff would bother, but I doubt it's for malicious intent. I understand that it's a group vote. If people are uncomfortable with that connection then I will respect that.

He's a very kind and open-minded person

19:06

When i met him in the wiki

19:07

It was through an abusive staffmember, and a perpetually tantrum-throwing child

19:09

A lot of us were fed up with this guy, fredmodulars. @Brother Fruit can certainly vouch for that. Chipoff was the voice of reason disagreeing with some of our policies, to a decent extent because of his more patience than ours, and he effected some real change

Yeah

19:10

Fred was a nightmare but some things he said had some merit

19:10

Chipoff helped find compromise

Probably a good guy to have around when the Votemasons ™️ start arguing as tends to happen

yea everything else is really good the beardler thing would not stop me personally

19:27

I just hope he knows it looks a lil

1

I thought chipoff was older, with how mature he is and how his voice sounds catflushed

catflushed

Same

I don't

21:41

Know how to feel

21:41

About beardler

/ignore

thistbh

1

yes

1

Gud solution

Image attachment

21:47

chipoff rn

Image attachment

Image attachment

Rango irl

Holy shit he's so cool

a lot of us in here are fairly close with controversial figures on this server - objective or subjective. i don't think the Beardler connection is anything to fret in the slightest. (edited)

22:20

if a person knows what and what not to talk about with whomever (with evidence), that's basically good enough for me.

thistbh

3

This

This

This

That

hype

Correct. Just because Nordic and BabbaJ (among others) chat with the nerds regularly doesn't mean I don't trust them to keep A and B separated. There are different kinds of discretion and different kinds of trust. I wouldn't trust Beardler given his reputation and I doubt Chipoff trusts him any more than Offtopia would at this point Heck, we trusted Dloaded enough to give him his ranks back and look what happened.

thistbh

1

1

Wise words

02:54

Very true I think

How do people feel about Nexx? Ive been to 2 bases with him so far and talk to him in vc and text in the guardsmen

02:16

Hes shown interest in joining here and I'd like to get him an invite

02:16

so we can have more guests

Nex is in a number of mutual projects with me, I am also a fan

02:21

Reliable, level-headed guy

is that his IGN?

02:21

Nexx?

https://namemc.com/profile/NexxMC.4

NexxMC | Minecraft Profile

Check the availability of Minecraft names, look up the name history of Minecraft accounts, view Minecraft skins in 3D, convert UUIDs, and much more!

:thumbs_up:

02:33

i don't know him at all

Me neither.

He’s a nice guy known him since summer 2019 never super close though

bit too close to brownmen for my liking tbh

ok I know brochaco is young and ex emp but he's pretty chill and has been building at chunk

00:37

he's not completely retarded

yeah, he seems really dumb in text channels, but when you talk to him in vc, he's reall ycool

00:44

he's moved up in my book (edited)

00:44

also, Dec is really cool

Dec is chill too

Honestly don't think broc is mason material

01:45

Maybe cool to have around but not as brother

01:45

Dec... Idk, mixed feelings

I agree

Agree

Don’t think either is mason material atm - dec was really unstable, let’s give him at least a year in total of being back.

I trust terbin.

Why does brother music NOT have 4th degree???????

Cause he hasn’t been initiated into it

04:40

There was an official initiation for brother music back before 4th

you have to build a lodge to get 4th degree

Can I include Brother Music in building a lodge?

if BrotherMusic account is in game baritoning then i dont see how entropy can deny that

Agree

But who has the BrotherMusic account? Scribble?

Ye

brother terbin

Don’t think either is mason material atm - dec was really unstable, let’s give him at least a year in total of being back.

i can agree on that with Brochacho. i don't think that's the case with Dec, tho. idr what he was like the first time he was in here (or even when that was tbh), but he told me about some drama that was goin on in his personal life (which i don't doubt played a big part) that apparently has come and gone. (edited)

12:59

which could mean he's a little less unstable now. i wouldn't hold him to a year, tho; maybe 6 months at most

sounds good

1

we can also change brother music to any name so if you get an alt brother sound or some shit we just intiate them

17:04

if scribble wants to keep the acct

BrotherChoons

Brother Brother

we can initiate brother groovy too he will only get 4th degree

groovy hasnt shown enough interest / dedication yet

23:13

barely ever in voice

can I get uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh

23:43

invite for nexx

so true!!!!

23:47

He's helping me run a watercube removal project, has so far been very helpful with planning

23:48

He is a smart lad

i hope you realise watercube removal is quadratically more work than creation

yes i do

Good thing he has the power of autism on his side

eepy Joe

He's helping me run a watercube removal project, has so far been very helpful with planning

Removing water cube where?

spawn

00:10

we have higher autism quotients than you could possibly imagine

Dang i was gonna use that

00:10

For a lodge

we'll build a new one

00:10

or fail lol

oh nice

00:21

you figured out how to use sponges the most effecient?

00:22

or what are your strats?

00:24

on the creative server you can see what giganox and me havw came up with

they are definitely gonna try flying machines

00:25

which is still feasible cause most of the blocks were already removed

flying machines yeah, currently looking into the feasibility of multi-level machines; at 10 tps, with ALL prep work done, and machines made and properly loaded, it would take 14 hours of constant runtime currently

00:29

14 hours is ridiculous unless we have a fuckton of people protecting them

00:30

@Brother F3 i would love to see the design you guys have, but i am not whitelisted

Just so you know if your remove it i will put some of it back for my lodge

if you work in the shadows and dont drag attention you can run machinery close to spawn easily

00:51

just make sure to put enough obby bs to keep the water from being fixed

Brother Entropy

they are definitely gonna try flying machines

oh true yea thats better...

eepy Joe

@Brother F3 i would love to see the design you guys have, but i am not whitelisted

it was with sponges so less effiecent xD

Brother Entropy

just make sure to put enough obby bs to keep the water from being fixed

thats the idea after assuming all goes well

00:55

we have a lot of obsidian stockpiled (edited)

Brother F3

it was with sponges so less effiecent xD

cool concept though

Just fill it with obby

00:55

Can be that hard

Brother Entropy

just make sure to put enough obby bs to keep the water from being fixed

?

will make the 00 ... mess, probably solid obsidian

there is supposed to be a flying mashine in the vorners wherr water sources could form

wait you were literally already in there

?? I tried to join like 2 days ago and it said no

Wrong alt?

beats me

Also wring cha. El

Image attachment

Very cool picture^

acc name leak

Nexx nsn'er instant no

thistbh

1

please lamp, what is nsn? (edited)

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/566749523666534402/806590032437706792

18:22

No server november

agree with lamp 100%

agree

Yeah that’s some bullshit. “Nsn” can kiss the fattest part of my ass.

broder lampa

Nexx nsn'er instant no

yeah i mentioned his connection to brownmen earlier but it sorta got ignored lol

No discussion before nex was invited either

@Brother Fruit i read brownmen as guardsmen lmao

20:10

or like i thought that's what you meant with brownmen

Brother Toilet (breithan)

No discussion before nex was invited either

there was a bit https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/805622470371311646

20:10

that's what henry meant

20:10

when he said in the end the thing about the brownmen association

20:13

also guests can be invited through many ways - it's enough if "everyone in voice" agreed

20:13

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/521103283520274475/594993718700802069

20:13

there is a grace period for people to voice opinions

20:13

but the general idea I think is, guests can be gotten rid of as quickly as they can join?

20:14

therefore no strict rules on invitation

What the fuck who did

20:34

I mean honestly it would be nice to ask before inviting anyone

20:36

Anyone associated to retarded shit like no server november/destroy server december/other newfag clout seeking shit can stay in their dirt hut

https://discord.com/channels/343851086026637313/353423878137315329/805622470371311646

Oh I missed it

20:43

My b

Didn’t know he was an nsn guy also thought Henry means guardsmen when he said brown men lol

21:27

Ik he was voco left voco was part of a big group base then ended up in guardsmen

Also, nexx just brought some leaky base coord “here’s coords do your thing 2b” reddit garbage into general right? (edited)

22:10

Correction, it was kelvidore

Ill personally ask him if he had a part in it

23:15

to see if hes honest about it and/or how involved he was

Yeh I don't like kelv a lot

23:18

He was rude to Cubes for no reason

I meant nexx and the no server november thing

Brother Todarac

to see if hes honest about it and/or how involved he was

he already volunteered the information that he “had not made a lag machine since november”

23:40

Kick him

^

00:19

Sloppy

NSN is always a hard no for me

04:36

but

04:37

i was in vc with Nexx for like an hour earlier this evening and if i hadn't known of his associations, i would never have assumed such (edited)

04:37

he seems really cool thus far

04:39

also, i love Kelv, but i'm almost convinced he has no Brother Potential™️

Pint spitting HARD redpills

these redpills were PAINFUL to pass

ye Kelv is a bit unhinged, but a sweet guy

brother terbin

ye Kelv is a bit unhinged, but a sweet guy

This x 1000

kelv is very sweet and i like the guy, but some of the stuff he does makes me very uneasy

ye

Kelv sober makes me feel how Nordic does when he's drunk (edited)

He's a gem. Just loves his knowledge of personal details.

Kelv is a great guy. Very open and fun to talk to.

I get douchebag vibes from Kelv sometimes

I get that.

Kelv is funny but idk aboht Mason material

He's way too into doxing, even if he thinks its a haha funny meme dude just pulls your shit up its uncomfy

yeah, especially when it's pertaining to minors; he pulled Rain's up and DM'd me it without any notice or context.

23:54

and this was durig his first week in here

yikes

how do we feel about other guest atm?

23:58

i'm not really liking Netherad tbh

kelvidore is kind of like neutral chaotic he is just weird and kinda annoying but doesn’t really have bad intentions

Brother Pint

i'm not really liking Netherad tbh

kinda highkey flirts with ~~Clover and Rain~~ every woman him in this Discord

dont be a white knight dude

I am happy to see familypumpkin active again

if they dont like it they can prob say so them selfs

also i will say, i have been pleasantly surprised by brochacho's behavior

redpill

1

thistbh

1

why do the guests send so many messages brochacho has almost more than me

because we tell them to be active

true

(JOKE) charlie ur message count is low because all you do is rage at people who rage at emperium

redpill

1

1

dumbemotedonotuseokgoodthanks

1

I like netherrad he's just a bit slow

Bróðir Nordic

if they dont like it they can prob say so them selfs

keyword "prob"

Brother leijurv

(JOKE) charlie ur message count is low because all you do is rage at people who rage at emperium

dumbemotedonotuseokgoodthanks

eepy Joe

I am happy to see familypumpkin active again

THIS. i love FamPump and think he's a v cool dude

idk how to feel about him tbh

00:11

I'm 50/50

00:12

I like him generally but I don't like some things I've heard

brother noname

I like him generally but I don't like some things I've heard

can you share what those thing are? i've heard nothing

he's Jared insider

no bueno

I should just ask him about it

Брат Bird

He's way too into doxing, even if he thinks its a haha funny meme dude just pulls your shit up its uncomfy

If you think doxing is fun I straight up would kick him no matter how cool or friendly you are

00:17

Leaking people's personal infos around is not cool

he did that in (emperium) too

brother noname

he's Jared insider

From who did you hear this

1Charlie3

kelvidore is kind of like neutral chaotic he is just weird and kinda annoying but doesn’t really have bad intentions

i agree with this. i take don't like calling people stupid lightly, but he essentially is in that regards

Brother Floyd

From who did you hear this

yeah, i'd like to know, too puweeze

pleading_face_BOLD

Brother Floyd

From who did you hear this

idk I can't find it it mightve been in vc

I kinda remember too

I know I'm not making it up

00:24

Yolo im asking him lol

Lol

00:25

Expect like "ofc I'm not wtf"

00:25

I honestly like Fam so idk

00:25

Didn't know this jared thing

i just dm'd Fam

well people throw Jared insider like it's nothing

regardin gthat

NOOOO

00:26

God damn it

Also true

now he's gonna be like wtf

friendly reminder

did you dm him?

DELETE FAST

yes

Lmaoo

i was accused of similar shit when i tried to come here at first

right

if i dm him too will that even it out

dumbemotedonotuseokgoodthanks

1

frankly, i smell bs

I'm sure I would be if I never joined

Brother Entropy

if i dm him too will that even it out

yes

Brother Entropy

if i dm him too will that even it out

LMAOOOO

00:27

it is finished

everyone dm him rn asking him why he's a Jared insider

Top kekkers

i asked him if he was lol

00:28

bu ti like ufo's idea a lot

I feel a lot of times others equate being friendly with Jared as being an insider

Noo you just gotta assume he is

redpill

1

Image attachment

brother noname

I feel a lot of times others equate being friendly with Jared as being an insider

this

he's not even friendly with jared lul (edited)

every time i mention i'm "buddies" with Jared i get a lecturette from certain people if they hear it

1

Jared insiders be like: he's not even friends with Jared!

00:31

okay buddy

theyre both impostors

eject

on trial

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

For me the only potential brother is guddy, but that still requires a while yet. Netherrad is a maybe. I don’t particularly like bro, kelv, dec. If they weren’t all at chunky I’d say kick them now

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